Martin Skrtel

[The Birdman]

Lovren is terrible positionally also

Wouldn't disagree with that but he is the other way, too aggressive in his intent and positioning, too rash with decision making.

Doesn't sit far too deep allowing the opposition free runs in behind.

Ideally you wouldn't have either but (as you know I'm sure) you cannot press with 9 outfield players going in one direction and our favourite centre back moving in the opposite direction.
Just impossible.

[The Birdman]

Here's my last post on it.
Anyone see MNF last night after the game? Carragher (who I'm more qualified than btw) talking through the De Bruyne chance, highlights Mertesaker being 10 yards too deep, explains where he should be but that he sits deeper as he's scared of the space in behind (sound familiar??)

Difference is Man City missed, if they had scored it's squarely Mertesaker's fault.

[Exiled_red]

I probably started this is it coaching or what discussion, and the reason is I genuinely don't know. I agree that in most situations it would be stupid to have 3 defenders in a line and one deeper, I very much doubt any of our recent managers have said 'you three play in a line and Martin you play 5 yards behind them'. But it could be implied rather than a direct instruction, i.e. he has been told to make sure no-other member of the back 4 is deeper than him and he is taking that the wrong way, or because Sakho pushes on he has been told to be prepared to cover for him, or be for some other tactical reason that I don't appreciate. While these may seem bizzare thoughts or comments, Skrtel has been doing this for ages and given the number of times this has been highlighted on MOTD or Sky or the pictures that have been posted on here surely if our manager / coaching staff didn't want him to do it they must have noticed that this is a problem and should have him working on it either with him or have brought someone in that doesn't do it.

To me something doesn't make sense, given that we are talking about a professional footballer and professional coaching staff the fact it has been going on for so long and has seemingly been left unaddressed seems like there must be more to it perhaps something subtle that I am missing.

[RichC]

He has been both excellent and terrible under all of them. I just think he needs a clearly defined role and someone along side him as you say. Then he knows exactly what to do.

His bigger problems is when he has to think, which I think agains speaks to his hesitation with all the info he is given. (For all we know he might not be given any)

I just dont think its as clear cut as 'Hes ****' or 'The coaching is the problem' Because I am pretty sure that under Rodgers people would be more inclined to blame the coaching, and with Klopp more inclined to blame the player.

The problem I see with him is that without a dominant CB alongside him these errors will continue to happen, he's 31 now and he seems to revert to type by dropping off from the rest of the back-line which is is fundamentally wrong. Coaching can play a part in it to an extent but these instructions have to be followed out on the pitch and it appears to me anyway he takes his comfort position of dropping off to give him time and space with the man in front but it negates the rest of the defence by doing so.

In short it's probably been a mixture over the managers he's had and his reverting to type.

How much longer can you allow this to continue though ?

[Rigadon]

If our only (or biggest) problem was Martin Skrtel - we'd be fine. Truth is - our midfield is incredibly poor (can't control a game) and we can't score goals (£32m ).

[Bender]

simple issue is there is no Leader from Gk to Defence,other than panic and pandemonium.

[RichC]

That is true, the side lacks a real spine at the moment.

[Bender]

That is true, the side lacks a real spine at the moment.

imo Klopp needs 2 full summer Transfer windows to have the squad and team he is happy with....also i'm wondering how many of our current squad have the mentality klopp is looking for in a player[Dortmund]

[Exiled_red]

That is true, the side lacks a real spine at the moment.

I've been saying the same, I think the majority of the players we have at the moment are fine probably better than the majority of players we have had in some of our better sides in recent years. The problem is that we lack the world class / key players who can make a difference, the ones who actually bring the players together into a team. I think as we have said on a number of occasions in the past we are only a few players away from being a good side, the problem at the moment is that all those players we need are key players.

I think that in the january window or more likely in the summer we need to focus on bringing in those key players rather than spreading money around trying to iteratively improve a number of areas. I would rather we bring in a couple of top quality players who would make a difference than mess around bringing 4 or 5 £15-25m players

[DannyMan2006]

I've been saying the same, I think the majority of the players we have at the moment are fine probably better than the majority of players we have had in some of our better sides in recent years. The problem is that we lack the world class / key players who can make a difference, the ones who actually bring the players together into a team. I think as we have said on a number of occasions in the past we are only a few players away from being a good side, the problem at the moment is that all those players we need are key players.

I think that in the january window or more likely in the summer we need to focus on bringing in those key players rather than spreading money around trying to iteratively improve a number of areas. I would rather we bring in a couple of top quality players who would make a difference than mess around bringing 4 or 5 £15-25m players

I wouldn't be against a free transfer of someone like Joel Matip to replace Kolo Toure, but aside than minor deals like that and the bolstering of youth players we need to be looking big.

[Lecter]

Wouldn't disagree with that but he is the other way, too aggressive in his intent and positioning, too rash with decision making.

Doesn't sit far too deep allowing the opposition free runs in behind.

Ideally you wouldn't have either but (as you know I'm sure) you cannot press with 9 outfield players going in one direction and our favourite centre back moving in the opposite direction.
Just impossible.

Lovren is also positionally terrible in relation to his fullback and his fellow centrehalf

He leaves the fullback far too isolated far too often and when he should shift over and cover his opposite side he leaves too much of a gap the other way between him and the other centrehalf

[Lecter]

Here's my last post on it.
Anyone see MNF last night after the game? Carragher (who I'm more qualified than btw) talking through the De Bruyne chance, highlights Mertesaker being 10 yards too deep, explains where he should be but that he sits deeper as he's scared of the space in behind (sound familiar??)

Difference is Man City missed, if they had scored it's squarely Mertesaker's fault.

Yep, my first thoughts when I saw that was that Mersteker had done a Skrtel

[Exiled_red]

I wouldn't be against a free transfer of someone like Joel Matip to replace Kolo Toure, but aside than minor deals like that and the bolstering of youth players we need to be looking big.

I know people are getting on certain players backs alot on here but I believe that if we had a couple of organisers/leaders in the side who would give us a bit of drive and purpose I think that we would see the better performances from the majority of players in the squad.

The transfer dealings are about getting the right players most that the cost of them, but to get top class players you generally have to pay top whack, and given the lack of a spine / leadership etc in the side we need to bring in someone who will make an immediate impact rather than someone who might come good in 2 or 3 years.

[Lecter]

I know people are getting on certain players backs alot on here but I believe that if we had a couple of organisers/leaders in the side who would give us a bit of drive and purpose I think that we would see the better performances from the majority of players in the squad.

The transfer dealings are about getting the right players most that the cost of them, but to get top class players you generally have to pay top whack, and given the lack of a spine / leadership etc in the side we need to bring in someone who will make an immediate impact rather than someone who might come good in 2 or 3 years.

How many top class players have Leicester and Palace and Watford bought???

The more I watch this league this season the more its become about pace and moving the ball quickly and then competing once you have lost possession

All those are hallmarks of Dortmund under Klopp, the problem is we currently lack pace in our frontline (other than Ibe & Oirigi) and we dont move the ball quickly enough. Thats a poor combination for a top side to have, equally we dont compete enough and win enough possession in the midfield area

The more I look at our transfer dealings the more I despair, Rodgers failed to address the midfield and centreback positions in the time he was here and in addition he replaced our quick attacking players with slow technical players

The slow build up passing game has gone, even if you are a possession based side you have to move the ball quickly

[Exiled_red]

How many top class players have Leicester and Palace and Watford bought???

The more I watch this league this season the more its become about pace and moving the ball quickly and then competing once you have lost possession

All those are hallmarks of Dortmund under Klopp, the problem is we currently lack pace in our frontline (other than Ibe & Oirigi) and we dont move the ball quickly enough. Thats a poor combination for a top side to have, equally we dont compete enough and win enough possession in the midfield area

The more I look at our transfer dealings the more I despair, Rodgers failed to address the midfield and centreback positions in the time he was here and in addition he replaced our quick attacking players with slow technical players

The slow build up passing game has gone, even if you are a possession based side you have to move the ball quickly

While I agree to a certain extent, the likes of Watford and Leicester haven't bought top class players, but they have got to where they are because they have players that will get stuck in an will make a difference, they make things happen in the game, which we seem to be lacking. But with all due respect to those sides (and I am not running down what they have achieved), but at the so called bigger clubs the challenges are different. Despite Leicester being above us in the table teams are more likely to play an open game against them and pack men behind the ball against the bigger sides like ourselves, similarly despite their higher position in the table there is more pressure and expectation on us than there is on them. Despite playing in the same league what the sides come up against and what is required of them is IMO very different, many of the players that we consider as struggling this season would probably improve sides such as Watford or Leicester because of the differences in situation and expectation.

I agree that we need more pace and movement in the side, we need to move the ball quicker and compete in the midfield aand improve our soft centre at the back, but as well as bringing in good footballers, we need good organisers, leaders and players who are mentally tough, which are (usually) at the top class end of the market.