Brendan Rodgers

[Fredo]

I'd also say a lack of following up is part of it - you can hit the woodwork and still get a goal and then no one cares about the fate of the initial strike.

To a large extent tactics are an attempt to minimise the influence of individual errors and maximise the benefits of individual excellence. At the minute (and last season) I think we failed to do either particularly well.

But to be fair, we got rid of a few attackers in Maxi, Dirk and Bellamy. They all could have provided us with maybe, 10 goals or so? We haven't replaced them and that's one of the issues.

[RichC]

I'd also say a lack of following up is part of it - you can hit the woodwork and still get a goal and then no one cares about the fate of the initial strike.

To a large extent tactics are an attempt to minimise the influence of individual errors and maximise the benefits of individual excellence. At the minute (and last season) I think we failed to do either particularly well.

fair point. We don't and haven't for a long time got enough bodies into the box, you look at united who have a midfield that's both ageing and IMO devoid of real quality win game after game by employing aggressive attacking tactics. We entirely rely on that special moment from Suarez to get us a goal or two far, far too much

[dww]

But to be fair, we got rid of a few attackers in Maxi, Dirk and Bellamy. They all could have provided us with maybe, 10 goals or so? We haven't replaced them and that's one of the issues.

I think you have to say that Rodgers is in part to blame for this - certainly in terms of where he chose to strengthen the squad as a priority. Look at Fergusons way of building a team - get goalscorers first and then work backwards. Rodgers prioritised midfield and that has been ineffective and his failure to add goals to the squad has hurt us.

To me it is part of Rodgers philosophy - it may pay off in the long run but in the short term it was a considerable misjudgement I feel.

I know some people say that he tried to get in Dempsey etc. but why on earth leave getting a forward to the last day of the window?

[DannyMan2006]

But to be fair, we got rid of a few attackers in Maxi, Dirk and Bellamy. They all could have provided us with maybe, 10 goals or so? We haven't replaced them and that's one of the issues.

This is the key point.

Bellamy>Sterling
Maxi>Suso
Kuyt>Borini

And it's not even that close between them IMO. The gulf in class is a chasm. The players we have at present have massive potential. But that's all it is ATM. Yes I'll concede that every now & then the youngsters have given a great account of themselves. But they seriously lack consistency.

Now look to the start of next season. The above players will have had experience playing on a regular to semi regular basis and will be better for it. Plus we will have delved into the transfer market and brought in better, experienced players, providing real competition.

It will be a massive improvement on this season.

[Charly]

I think it comes doen to one simple problem... we are not scoring enough goals. Our difficulty in scoring destroys the confidence of our players, and probably gives the opposition more confidence, and actually leads to us conceeding more that the team probably should. But then this is the exact same problem we had last year, and instead of increasing our firepower, we have reduced it. And are playing a system where our midfielders are not getting in scoring positions.

So instead of addressing our problems, we have magnified them. If Suarez was playing and shooting like last season, then we would be much closer to relegation.

I am happy to give Rodgers the season, but at the same time, we really do need to address the obvious shortcomings of the team (and I am not 100% sure that its just a case of buying a striker to play down the wing).

[DannyMan2006]

I think you have to say that Rodgers is in part to blame for this - certainly in terms of where he chose to strengthen the squad as a priority. Look at Fergusons way of building a team - get goalscorers first and then work backwards. Rodgers prioritised midfield and that has been ineffective and his failure to add goals to the squad has hurt us.

To me it is part of Rodgers philosophy - it may pay off in the long run but in the short term it was a considerable misjudgement I feel.

I know some people say that he tried to get in Dempsey etc. but why on earth leave getting a forward to the last day of the window?

Rodgers came in and quickly signed up players he knew were good enough to improve the squad. He knew first hand the situation of Borini & Allen so the purchase of those two was simple. The signing of a forward was not simple. I'm guessing we thought we had Dempsey and were thinking if we waited we'd get him. Mistakes were made and that's why we're in the position we are in.

[Fredo]

I think you have to say that Rodgers is in part to blame for this - certainly in terms of where he chose to strengthen the squad as a priority. Look at Fergusons way of building a team - get goalscorers first and then work backwards. Rodgers prioritised midfield and that has been ineffective and his failure to add goals to the squad has hurt us.

To me it is part of Rodgers philosophy - it may pay off in the long run but in the short term it was a considerable misjudgement I feel.

I know some people say that he tried to get in Dempsey etc. but why on earth leave getting a forward to the last day of the window?

He builds teams from midfield up, then defence I guess. Game is based on possession so I think it's natural. Think policy is geared towards the long run, which is why I'd hold off until end of next season to judge him.

[DannyMan2006]

I think it comes doen to one simple problem... we are not scoring enough goals. Our difficulty in scoring destroys the confidence of our players, and probably gives the opposition more confidence, and actually leads to us conceeding more that the team probably should. But then this is the exact same problem we had last year, and instead of increasing our firepower, we have reduced it. And are playing a system where our midfielders are not getting in scoring positions.

So instead of addressing our problems, we have magnified them. If Suarez was playing and shooting like last season, then we would be much closer to relegation.

I am happy to give Rodgers the season, but at the same time, we really do need to address the obvious shortcomings of the team (and I am not 100% sure that its just a case of buying a striker to play down the wing).

Rodgers is one of the first managers in a long time who I actually believe sees the obvious places where we need to strengthen. And that's why you'll see attacking players come in this window.

[dww]

Rodgers came in and quickly signed up players he knew were good enough to improve the squad. He knew first hand the situation of Borini & Allen so the purchase of those two was simple. The signing of a forward was not simple. I'm guessing we thought we had Dempsey and were thinking if we waited we'd get him. Mistakes were made and that's why we're in the position we are in.

So why spend so much time on Sahin in particular then? Assaidi also has to be thought of as a weird decision.

I can see there are others that might be to blame for timing etc. I just think that we as a club and the manager (if we have no DoF) should be the one who decides on the strategy and tactics in this area (even if he has to work inside a budget decided by others).

He builds teams from midfield up, then defence I guess. Game is based on possession so I think it's natural. Think policy is geared towards the long run, which is why I'd hold off until end of next season to judge him.

That is clearly what he does - the question is whether it is/was a good strategy for us in our particular circumstances. For me it wasn't in the short term - you may well be right though that he could be vindicated in the long run.

[Imy]

He builds teams from midfield up, then defence I guess. Game is based on possession so I think it's natural. Think policy is geared towards the long run, which is why I'd hold off until end of next season to judge him.

I posted an article analysing the Stoke game earlier in the thread, i found this interesting about posession:

Liverpool under Rodgers are renowned for playing out from the back (in the first few phases) and resting on the ball. Swansea under Rodgers employed a similar approach where 33% of Swansea’s possession would be composed of possession in the first third and 13% in the final third (Barcelona’s possession on the other hand was composed of 10%, 61% and 29% in each third).

Heres the full analysis of the game if anyone hasn't had a look at it:

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=2529111&postcount=3989

[Neil Young]

So why spend so much time on Sahin in particular then? Assaidi also has to be thought of as a weird decision.

I can see there are others that might be to blame for timing etc. I just think that we as a club and the manager (if we have no DoF) should be the one who decides on the strategy and tactics in this area (even if he has to work inside a budget decided by others).



That is clearly what he does - the question is whether it is/was a good strategy for us in our particular circumstances. For me it wasn't in the short term - you may well be right though that he could be vindicated in the long run.

And maybe it will get us to the long term more quickly than short term fixes. I imagine that's the idea.

I share the concern about his tactical inflexibility. But then criticising him for not changing things against Stoke or Villa is no different from criticising him for not adopting specific tactics like putting men on the posts against those teams.

And having doubts is one thing but criticising him for this or that or the other is no different from judging him now, not at the end of the season or this time next year or whenever. Yes, it's not a final judgment on him, but it's still making a judgment based on half a season and one transfer window.

I think all we can properly do is suppress our doubts, keep our fingers crossed and support the manager and the team wherever we do it. It's frustrating and can look uncomfortably like blind faith but it's too soon to do anything else, bad results, inconsistent performances and garrulous interviews notwithstanding.

[dww]

And maybe it will get us to the long term more quickly than short term fixes. I imagine that's the idea.

I share the concern about his tactical inflexibility. But then criticising him for not changing things against Stoke or Villa is no different from criticising him for not adopting specific tactics like putting men on the posts against those teams.

And having doubts is one thing but criticising him for this or that or the other is no different from judging him now, not at the end of the season or this time next year or whenever. Yes, it's not a final judgment on him, but it's still making a judgment based on half a season.

I think all we can properly do is suppress our doubts, keep our fingers crossed and support the manager and the team wherever we do it. It's frustrating and can look uncomfortably like blind faith but it's too soon to do anything else, bad results, inconsistent performances and garrulous interviews notwithstanding.

Fair enough. Especially the point in bold I can see. My worry is that to get to the long term you have to show your vision is paying off somehow. At this point I'm not sure anyone is certain of that - I hope that I'm wrong and inside the club everyone is seeing why we should follow this path.

I guess the point is how much belief one has in ones criticism. I don't think it is unreasonable to make some form of judgement if one is willing to revise it - for me my criticism is 'for discussion only', I certainly wouldn't let it change my overall support of the team/manager.

[Neil Young]

I'm not saying we can't criticise. But there are so many unknowns, every statement needs to be taken with such a huge pinch of salt that we're all in serious danger of electrolyte disturbance.

And if it's a long term project then we risk cardiovascular disease, stroke, high blood pressure and left ventricular hypertrophy.

[TheElephantMan]

I want Rodgers to succeed because obviously his success is our success. I don't like him, not that it matters particularly. I don't enjoy watching us at the moment, it seems dreadfully amateurish. I didn't enjoy watching us under Rafa at times, but I never felt as frustrated back then as I do now. As others have said we just have to be patient and hope things gel. If not I imagine FSG will be as ruthless at the end of this season as they were last. I don't want us to replace our manager every season, but it's very difficult to hope for improvement when we're not steadily getting better. If there were small improvements then I would be more hopeful, but it's the same as last season. Basic errors in spite of dominating possession. Possession means nothing unless we do something positive. We're too predictable and it's frustrating.

Whinging about Rodgers on here is one thing, supporting the manager and players at the game is another. I am sure Rodgers will have unequivocal support at games. I am confident that if we don't improve in the second half of the season Rodgers will be an ex-manager come the summer.

[Mostar]

To be honest I'm not into that - sure the players haven't been good enough but nor has he. I know he's not going to sit there and tell the world he's been poor, that his tactics are not working, that regardless of personnel and form opposition players walk through our midfield time and time again. But it grates with me a little. Yes our players need more of a winning mentality, but so does he. He is not a proven winner, he seems satisfied by Swansea-esque mid-table comfort, and he never takes any responsibility himself.

Rodgers does talk too much though. He's revealing too much about the club at interviews. Maybe it makes the job harder.

Every day he has something to say.

I'd prefer he does less talking to the media and more doing on the pitch.