Brendan Rodgers

[Neil Young]

What was so concerning for you?

[Phoenix07]

What was so concerning for you?

When European football is looked down upon because of the way it's offered, or because it might prove detrimental to our season starting early, and favouring pre-season tours, then I wonder what is the point?

I'll just go and cry a little.

[BootRoom]

It's also always been my belief too.

But I haven't lined up evidence to support it and then framed it with specific reference to "a less than stellar signing".

I'm not 'lining up evidence' to bolster criticism against the Manager; I've already said I don't feel I need to. The point of highlighting those quotes in The Echo, as I alluded to in the same post, was to counter claptrap like this: http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/show...&postcount=756

You can read a 'subtext' into it for all you like.

[Neil Young]

When European football is looked down upon because of the way it's offered, or because it might prove detrimental to our season starting early, and favouring pre-season tours, then I wonder what is the point?

I'll just go and cry a little.

Are you sure people were really looking down on European football? Or were they simply trying to explain the thinking behind the idea (which apparently never existed)?

I think it's nowhere near as simple as people not wanting European football. Certainly I do. But if the manager decides to prioritise something else so we achieve our long term goals sooner, then I think he should be given the support to make that decision - it's his job on the line after all. And I don't see the point in us going all misty-eyed about the romance of playing dull games in June against IFK Fljótsdalshérað or Dynamo Sevastopol if it makes it more likely we'll have to rely on the Fair Play league to qualify for Europe again next year.

To me it's a matter of what will help us make more progress more quickly.

I'm not 'lining up evidence' to bolster criticism against the Manager; I've already said I don't feel I need to. The point of highlighting those quotes in The Echo, as I alluded to in the same post, was to counter claptrap like this: http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/show...&postcount=756

You can read a 'subtext' into it for all you like.

Ok, thanks. I will because it wasn't neutral.

[MrMichael]

Are you sure people were really looking down on European football? Or were they simply trying to explain the thinking behind the idea (which apparently never existed)?

I think it's nowhere near as simple as people not wanting European football. Certainly I do. But if the manager decides to prioritise something else so we achieve our long term goals sooner, then I think he should be given the support to make that decision - it's his job on the line after all. And I don't see the point in us going all misty-eyed about the romance of playing dull games in June against IFK Fljótsdalshérað or Dynamo Sevastopol if it makes it more likely we'll have to rely on the Fair Play league to qualify for Europe again next year.

To me it's a matter of what will help us make more progress more quickly.

[James P]

And I don't see the point in us going all misty-eyed about the romance of playing dull games in June against IFK Fljótsdalshérað or Dynamo Sevastopol

That's easy for you to say.

[peekay]

An interesting comparison made by a poster on another forum. This highlights our record against teams which are defensively well organized or teams who are considered "good" in the league this season.

At home

Liverpool 2 - 2 City
Liverpool 0 - 2 Arsenal
Liverpool 1 - 2 Man Utd
Liverpool 0 - 2 West Brom
Liverpool 3 - 2 Spurs
Liverpool 2 - 2 Chelsea
Liverpool 0 - 0 Everton

P 7 W 1 D 3 L3 GS 8 GA 12 GD -4 Pts 6

Away

Man City 2 - 2 Liverpool
Arsenal 2 - 2 Liverpool
Man United 2 - 1 Liverpool
West Brom 3 - 0 Liverpool
Tottenham 2 - 1 Liverpool
Everton 2 - 2 Liverpool
Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool

P 7 W 0 D 4 L 3 GS 9 GA 14 GD -5 Pts 4

Total

P 14 W 1 D 7 L 6 GS 17 GA 26 GD -9 Pts 10

Of course several of these games we deserved to win and we gave a good account of ourselves. But one could argue that the only win against Spurs came after a brain fart from their defenders.

This record in addition to the fact that whenever we needed a win to catch up with some team or go above someone or get near the fourth, we have wilted.

Of course there is a squad quality issue and hopefully astute purchases in the summer will address those. But I think the above record also points to a mentality issue in the squad.

If we do not have the belief to overcome good teams occasionally it is going to be difficult to challenge for top 4. Also our cup runs will most likely end by the quarter finals.

[Neil Young]

Why do you think it necessarily points to a "mentality issue"? It could just as easily be lack of individual creativity or tactical inflexibility, either from the manager, the players or both. There may be other explanations that I haven't thought of too.

Defensively well organised teams are hard to break down. That's pretty much the definition of the term. So I don't see anything in the points you make that it must be the players' mentality, that they wilt under pressure. It could be but it could as easily be other things.

And what about the times the team has come back this season? I could be wrong but my guess would be that we've saved far more points from a losing position than we have done at times in the past. Wasn't there some terrible stat a few years ago that we hadn't won a league game from a losing position for years? We've done that under Rodgers more than once, if memory serves. And that suggests a strong mentality, although it also might just reflect the fact that that we're better at scoring goals than we were in some seasons in the past ten or fifteen years.

I bet it's not that rare that when one team loses, teams below them fail to capitalise on the defeat. The reason for that is that if they did capitalise every time then they'd end up above that team. So, on average, they don't capitalise and that's because they're not as good as the team above them.

And anyway there have been times this season when we have capitalised on bad days for our rivals.

I think you (or the person on another forum) have got a view and found some evidence that is consistent with it. But you/they are not looking for evidence that contradicts that view or other explanations of the same data.

[Arn]

We have a few key players and if one of them have a bad game then we get big problems. Sturridge for example yesterday.

If we would be better organized then that wouldn't be a problem. We need to play much more like a team and not hope that certain players will deliver.

You can also see the lack or organization at defensive set pieces.

Organization is our big weakness.

[Mattshark]

I think part of the issue is that 5 of those teams are undeniably better than we are.

[Neil Young]

[RichC]

Individual errors have cost us massively this season with players like Reina and Skrtel gifting goals to the opposition, we need to work hard on cutting out these daft errors.

[Neil Young]

Talking of daft errors, where's Lee?

[Arn]

Meanwhile, Rodgers was quizzed by journalists about newspaper reports which suggested Liverpool could turn down a place in next season's Europa League if they were offered a route into the competition via the Fair Play League.

He said: "I think I was asked the question last week and [my reply] was obviously meant as a joke, but it gets reportedly differently. We want to be in European football however it comes, but obviously we'd prefer to go down the football route.

I doubt that it was a joke. He simply talked about it before he had talked with FSG about it and after he talked to them then he changed the record IMO.

[Neil Young]

While we're about it, have you ever considered changing the record, Arnie?