Brendan Rodgers

[dizzycat]

Imagine how good you would be at your job if you were going through a messy divorce, having various cosmetic procedures, had a son up in front of the beak, a younger girlfriend to entertain.....

[Montana]

It's not just about getting 4th. It's also the opportunity to win the Europa this ****ing season which will get us CL football. We need a manager with European pedigree now, ideally Ancelotti. FSG don't blow it and stand still. Klopp will do business too IMO.

The squad has the quality.

[Hemingway]

I wrote a team out earlier today but deleted because of the injuries and it seemed to soon to speculate. But this is what I'd expect if all available:

Mig
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Henderson and Lucas (or Milner)
Ibe Coutinho Ings
Sturridge

As mentioned I would hope he went for a diamond but he'd probably try to start with his tried and trusted formation. Can see Milner and Benteke being distanced for their lack of ability on the ball. I'm still to be convinced of Benteke's contributions.

I actually think he'd rate both Milner and Benteke. BVB tried to buy Benteke a couple years back, and Milner's running would be important for how Klopp plays. He'd probably be repurposed as a sort of Grosskreutz figure on the wing though, more the way City used him.

I'd be interested to see how he set up the midfield. Sahin and Gundogan both got the ball up the pitch quickly (Sahin with his passing range, Gundogan as a ball carrier) and we don't have an obvious counterpart to either. Maybe Can's bursting runs could do it.

[G]

The more I think of it the more this whole FSG "model" annoys me. They are owners, businessmen. They aren't football men. The owners of the other big clubs don't concern themselves with the footy and how they should target and buy players, they focus on how it can make them more money and they hire the best football manager they can find to look after the football, tell him his budget each window and let him get on with it. In Europe they hire the best manager they can find and the best DoF they can find and let them get on with it. Either approach is how it should be.

[Fierce]

The more I think of it the more this whole FSG "model" annoys me. They are owners, businessmen. They aren't football men. The owners of the other big clubs don't concern themselves with the footy and how they should target and buy players, they focus on how it can make them more money

So do ours?

tell him his budget each window and let him get on with it.

So do ours!






I'm not sure what they've done wrong personally. Except from the obvious, but hindsight etc

[Fredo]

And I hope they're not a clique of men only people.

[G]

They clearly do focus on it. They decided on the strategy of a young manager, of buying young players who will grow in value rather than buying the best you can get or even the players the manager actually wants regardless of age or profile. It's pretty clear we have a way of working and it's very evident after 5 seasons that it's not fit for purpose. The committee they decided on implement all that and because it's a load of lads doing it rather than one, it's difficult to apportion blame for its failure. I imagine they are all very adept at blaming each other for its faults.

[baronvonskidmark]

Well I'd trust that Klopp saw that he had inherited a squad that had little natural width ahead of the full backs and so played 4-4-2 diamond. At Dortmund he used a narrow 4-2-3-1

I wrote a team out earlier today but deleted because of the injuries and it seemed to soon to speculate. But this is what I'd expect if all available:

Mig
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Henderson and Lucas (or Milner)
Ibe Coutinho Ings
Sturridge

As mentioned I would hope he went for a diamond but he'd probably try to start with his tried and trusted formation. Can see Milner and Benteke being distanced for their lack of ability on the ball. I'm still to be convinced of Benteke's contributions.

Cheers guys. The extra pace/energy in that team seems notable - Ings is pretty mobile too.

[Fierce]

They clearly do focus on it. They decided on the strategy of a young manager, of buying young players who will grow in value rather than buying the best you can get or even the players the manager actually wants regardless of age or profile. It's pretty clear we have a way of working and it's very evident after 5 seasons that it's not fit for purpose. The committee they decided on implement all that and because it's a load of lads doing it rather than one, it's difficult to apportion blame for its failure. I imagine they are all very adept at blaming each other for its faults.

Alright, so they have an input. Who doesn't? Do you honestly believe that someone that has so much financial involvement in a business would be happy to completely relinquish control of one of the main financial outlays of that business?

They're not picking players, they're saying, as all owners do, that they have a strategy for the ownership of the club, which includes various ways of doing things. All owners will do this. It would be remiss not to

[G]

Alright, so they have an input. Who doesn't? Do you honestly believe that someone that has so much financial involvement in a business would be happy to completely relinquish control of one of the main financial outlays of that business?

They're not picking players, they're saying, as all owners do, that they have a strategy for the ownership of the club, which includes various ways of doing things. All owners will do this. It would be remiss not to

That haven't just rocked up, hired Brendan and said away you go lad. Neither do the other owners but they've put a structure in place which it appears inhibits the club and it's manager's chances of success either due to the calibre of man they're hired to work within that structure or due to the calibre of players allowed to be purchased under it. Either way it's failed and that's on them. Our approach is clearly different to those we wish to catch, that's due to the owners wanting it that way and it's failed to make anything other than one temporary dent in the top 4 during 5 years of ownership. We've gone from 5th to 55th under their watch yet you can't see what they've done wrong. Right so.

[Fredo]

Interesting this.

The Liverpool manager maintained he is in regular, supportive dialogue with FSG officials but refused to be drawn on whether he should have been allowed to make his own signings rather than work alongside a transfer committee. “The responsibility will always go with the manager,” he said.

“You put out the team, there are players here that the club signed and it’s my job to maximise what we can get out of the players and I will continue to do that.”

Link

[BigChief]

Problem is he is not maximising them. He is nullifying them. If your parents buy you an Xbox 360 you don't keep sticking Xbox One games in to prove a point to your parents or be completely obstinate that one day it will work.

[BigChief]

I actually think he'd rate both Milner and Benteke. BVB tried to buy Benteke a couple years back, and Milner's running would be important for how Klopp plays. He'd probably be repurposed as a sort of Grosskreutz figure on the wing though, more the way City used him.

I'd be interested to see how he set up the midfield. Sahin and Gundogan both got the ball up the pitch quickly (Sahin with his passing range, Gundogan as a ball carrier) and we don't have an obvious counterpart to either. Maybe Can's bursting runs could do it.

I didn't know of his interest in Benteke. Thinking about it and his use of Lewandowski I suppose he would use Benteke but that messes up the 4231 when Sturridge needs to be the main man.

As for Milner or Lucas I completely forgot Can. It would be a two of Henderson and Can to replicate the Gundogan/Sahin partnership.

[S-RED]

System failure has left the American dream in tatters

Tony Barrett
Last updated at 12:01AM, September 25 2015

Fenway Sports Group had an ambitious vision for Liverpool, but its policy is stuttering

‘The model” as it became known was non-negotiable. A director of football was an absolute requirement. In the transfer market, “short-term, quick fixes” and overpaying for players were out of the question. A “talented young manager” was appointed to “instil a philosophy”.

Almost five years on from the purchase of Liverpool by Fenway Sports Group (FSG), all that remains of that blueprint is Brendan Rodgers. Given what was the model, it is not looking good.

Perhaps partly because he represents the last vestiges of the vision that they arrived with, Rodgers is yet to be dispensed with by FSG in the same manner as Damien Comolli, the director of football that they appointed, although there is no question that his position is subject to heightened consideration. Presiding over a run of form that has seen Liverpool win five matches out of their past 15 means that Rodgers can have few complaints about the mounting pressure that he is coming under, particularly with Jürgen Klopp and Carlo Ancelotti being available.

Having his tactics criticised, his signings rubbished and his approach questioned has become as much a part of the Liverpool manager’s daily routine as taking training at Melwood. There is no escape from the spotlight. But for all the scrutiny Rodgers is coming under, much of it as justified as it is inevitable, the question of whether the club he manages are giving him, or his potential replacements, the best possible chance to succeed is in danger of being lost in the clamour for change.

The focus on FSG and the decisions that it has made has become minimal. There is, though, a sense that Liverpool, on the pitch at least, are back to square one under their ownership. The league position they occupy, 13th, is only five places and two points better than it was in October 2010 when the American investment vehicle bought one of world football’s most famous clubs.

Then, their arrival came after an ignominious exit from the League Cup at the hands of League Two opposition, Northampton Town, a repeat of which was narrowly averted on Wednesday when Liverpool scraped past Carlisle United on penalties.

Just as Roy Hodgson, the manager FSG inherited, was beleaguered in 2010, Rodgers is under pressure in 2015. What took place in the intervening five years, save for a remarkable and wholly unexpected title challenge in 2013-14 has been wholly underwhelming: a single trophy - the Carling Cup in 2012 - and Champions League qualification achieved once.

Financial stability off the pitch, something that should not be underestimated, has not been followed by success on it.

“Most of all, we want to win,” John W Henry, Liverpool’s principal owner, once stated. “That ambition drives every decision. It is the Liverpool Way.” It may have been once but whether that is still the case is a moot point. Recently, Liverpool enlisted Ask Ten, an international leadership consultancy, whose website presents a case study of how a global football brand can “obtain commercial success off the pitch when the team is not performing on the pitch”. As an indication of where Liverpool are, it is compelling.

Were it not for the implications it would have for his job security, Rodgers would be entitled to cite the restrictions that he works under in mitigation. In the recent past, he has claimed that “fifth is par” for Liverpool, an argument that does hold weight when one considers that they have the Premier League’s fifth biggest wage bill, its fifth largest revenue and, when the redevelopment of Anfield is complete, they will have the country’s fifth biggest stadium. The problem for Rodgers is that last season Liverpool did not achieve that limited objective and they are several shots over par this season. That is why his job is in jeopardy.

Regardless of Rodgers’s failings, FSG needs to ask itself whether or not it has given him the best possible opportunity to deliver. If it is as honest as it was when Henry used an open letter to Liverpool fans to admit that mistakes had been made, it will acknowledge that its shortcomings, revolving primarily around an inconsistent approach with numerous deviations away from the course that it intended to follow, has not created the ideal conditions for any manager, particularly a relatively inexperienced one, to thrive in.

Five factors in Liverpool’s fall from grace

1 Losing Luis Suárez

His move to Barcelona will go down as the turning point if this downturn under FSG continues. In the 38 league games before Suárez left, Liverpool scored 101 goals; in the 44 games since, they have scored only 56. Suárez’s infectious will to win has also been lost.

2 Failing to replace Suárez

Armed with £75million from the sale, Liverpool went on a spree. Instead of replacing Suárez with one player of similar talent, such as Alexis Sánchez, they went for quantity. Of the nine players recruited, four, including Mario Balotelli, aren’t at the club this season.

3 Playing an understrength team away to Real Madrid

In terms of dressing-room morale and supporter confidence, the damage done by Rodgers’s decision not to pick his first-choice team for the Champions League tie cannot be understated. Steven Gerrard admitted later that the episode played a key role in his decision to leave.

4 Allowing Gerrard to leave

By his own admission, Gerrard, at 35, is not the player he was at 25. But given the lack of leaders, his departure should have been avoided. The brain drain that has seen Jamie Carragher, Pepe Reina and Daniel Agger leave has had a profound effect on Liverpool’s stature within the game. Allowing Gerrard to follow Carragher, Reina and Agger out of Anfield was a mistake.

5 Too many symbolic defeats

It isn’t just losing games, but the manner in which they lose. A pitiful performance in the FA Cup semi-final against Aston Villa; capitulation to Crystal Palace in Gerrard’s Anfield farewell; surrender at Stoke on the final day of last season, left; West Ham winning at Anfield for the first time since 1963. Each one has caused significant collateral damage.

Words by Tony Barrett

The transfer committee system that replaced the director of football template that was initially implemented has misfired. The idea of sharing votes on potential new signings between the manager, recruitment staff and executives may be democratic and reflect a desire to provide checks and balances, but its implementation has resulted in no one involved getting exactly what they want.

While Rodgers has been able to sign players such as Christian Benteke and Nathaniel Clyne as his first-choices, he has previously been prevented from pursuing interest in Ashley Williams and Ryan Bertrand. For their part, the committee, and particularly the owners, have been frustrated at the way that Rodgers has deployed signings that they have prioritised, with Lazar Markovic and Mamadou Sakho being two of the most obvious examples. That disconnect has been apparent from the summer that Rodgers took over as manager when he blocked a move to sign Daniel Sturridge from Chelsea only to backtrack the following January in the wake of pressure from FSG.

It is that dysfunction in their relationship that is at the heart of everything that is going wrong at Liverpool. Rodgers has long harboured doubts about whether he can succeed given the conditions that he works under, while FSG has had its own concerns about the Northern Irishman’s willingness to work collaboratively. Those mutual misgivings coupled with Liverpool’s slump mean that Rodgers is at growing risk of being replaced. Should either Klopp or Ancelotti succeed him, “the model” will be gone for good.

Next five fixtures facing Rodgers

Tomorrow Aston Villa (h), Premier League

Oct 1 Sion (h), Europa League

Oct 4 Everton (a), Premier League

Oct 17 Tottenham (a), Premier League

Oct 22 Rubin Kazan (h), Europa League

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/...cle4567112.ece

he signed to up this though, but obviously his ego overrides any logic or acceptance that he was employed first & foremost at a headcoach

[MrMichael]

Like Fierce, I just don't understand at all criticism of owners for having a business strategy

I don't get how it isn't fit for purpose either, certainly there have been issues with the execution but it seems quite clear to me that our performances on the pitch right now are not living up to the talent assembled in the squad and that comes down to the manager's tactics and coaching, not the ownership.

The committee system was introduced after the failures of Comolli, so it isn't as if we've just doggedly stuck to one idea under FSG. Maybe it will get changed again in the coming months, or maybe with a new manager it will start to work better. Ultimately under FSG our finances have improved significantly and our manager has been able to spend large sums on new players each summer. We can always want more but we could have got so much less. If Ancelotti or Klopp come in can we reasonably believe they will be backed in the market too? I think so. Hell maybe one of them will even be able to work with a committee so our signings under them actually fit with their plan for how we should play!