Rafa Watch

[Shaggy]

Going back to my initial point, we appear to be so obsessed with having to defend stances on this that we all make an argument where there is very little argument to be had. Usually because we make assumptions based on the tone and phrasing, having had so long suffering complete clowns lowering the tone on this topic. If we sensible folk can't shake the clown legacy, then even the kittehs will not save us.

'little argument to be had' - tell me about it

All I did was post his factual record, say it's decent and that it hasn't harmed his rep. Then all of a sudden I'm getting bizarre 'counter-arguments' saying, er, his record isn't exceptional, it's merely okay.

Well, quite.

So it's not me looking for arguments that are not there. I've just posted a few facts.

Also in posts in reply to me so far today I've had 'Saint Rafa', something about Rafa walking on water and RCDNW.



That sort of unnecessarily and unhelpfully reductive, polarising crap wouldn't be for me.

[dom9]

It has its moments. When it's not in meltdown mode there are still concurrent arguments in other threads that do get taken on own their own merits. Some threads more than others, some days more than others. Today, I hate to think!

Of course, but that's the point. It's not limited to this thread but extremely prevalent. We'll see how it pans out later eh?

[Red_Polo]

'little argument to be had' - tell me about it

All I did was post his factual record, say it's decent and that it hasn't harmed his rep. Then all of a sudden I'm getting bizarre 'counter-arguments' saying, er, his record isn't exceptional, it's merely okay.

Well, quite.

So it's not me looking for arguments that are not there. I've just posted a few facts.

Also in posts in reply to me so far today I've had 'Saint Rafa', something about Rafa walking on water and RCDNW.



That sort of unnecessarily and unhelpfully reductive, polarising crap wouldn't be for me.

I agree it's unhelpful. But look at the initial post MrM made. There was very little disagreement as you say but also nothing untoward had been said or implied. Simply an argument that the previous league season was a poor barometer. Going from there to here I wouldn't blame either of you alone, just the way it's become. I think we all fall foul of the things outlined above, and that's the reason situations like this arise.

If you disagree, furry muff. Just my two penneth

Of course, but that's the point. It's not limited to this thread but extremely prevalent. We'll see how it pans out later eh?

I think there is near complete absence of sensible discussion in this thread though.
Whereas in the LFC forum it tends to be in match threads, immediately post-match and a few little nuggets of poop elsewhere

I suppose my point is, you can find a reasonable time and space to discuss most things on this site. Rafa is not one of them.

At 3-1 I fear for today

[Shaggy]

There's no 'situation' as far as I'm concerned, just other people getting wound up over nowt.

And I completely disagree the previous 38 game league season is a poor barometer. It *is* the barometer. That's where they were at, it doesn't lie.

[Red_Polo]

There's no 'situation' as far as I'm concerned, just other people getting wound up over nowt.

And I completely disagree the previous 38 game league season is a poor barometer. It *is* the barometer. That's where they were at, it doesn't lie.

Sorry but I think that's a very very weak argument, the barometer for expectations is based on ALL of the available information you have. You can argue how you weight it but it is not the only thing to consider. You quite rightly didn't apply the previous league season as barometer when Rafa was at Inter. Nor should you now.

[McDermotX]

Rafa.


Still in the FA Cup.

[Red_Polo]

Haha

[Shaggy]

Sorry but I think that's a very very weak argument, the barometer for expectations is based on ALL of the available information you have. You can argue how you weight it but it is not the only thing to consider. You quite rightly didn't apply the previous league season as barometer when Rafa was at Inter. Nor should you now.

It's not the only thing to consider but it is clear how it is weighted - Cup runs/wins never have been and never will be as indicative of where a team is at than a 38 game league season. They lost 10 - worse than losing 1 in 4.

The CL was already practically irretrievable by the time Benitez arrived. Gone out of the League Cup, yep, and that was poor. FA Cup they're still in, and unless they implode spectacularly they're going to improve on 6th place and 64 points.

He's gone into a club mid-season, a club that had lost 4 of their last 7, who sacked yet another manager - one who was very popular with the players - and a squad who got 64 points and came 6th last season with two additional expensive 21 year olds and a £6m right back. I think all things considered his record so far - with a good squad that he's had nothing to do with the creation of - is decent. I don't see what's so provocative about that.

[Kenneth]

Back tracking now eh.
[COLOR="white"]its a bait baby[/COLOR

[Shaggy]

Nope. All along my point has been his record so far is decent. Not exceptional , not ****, and hasn't harmed his rep.

Snide, unhelpful remarks based on semantics don't really contribute anything at all.

[G]

Your on a hiding to nothing Shaggy simply because it's you that's posting.

If anything is said about him and you respond, rightly or wrongly people see it as being overly defensive of him the same as others are seen as overly critical of him.

You should call him a cunt occasionally for balance

[Shaggy]

All I did was post his exact record and rightly comment that a 55% win rate was decent

Next time I'll make up the stats. See how that goes down.

[Kenneth]

Ok. I thought you said they their squad was overrated and that they'd only added a couple of (world class) kids, and that Rafa's record should be compared to Di Matteo as a measure of how he's doing. All fine suppositions but with plenty of scope for analysis and discussion I would have thought.

[Red_Polo]

It's not the only thing to consider but it is clear how it is weighted - Cup runs/wins never have been and never will be as indicative of where a team is at than a 38 game league season. They lost 10 - worse than losing 1 in 4.

The CL was already practically irretrievable by the time Benitez arrived. Gone out of the League Cup, yep, and that was poor. FA Cup they're still in, and unless they implode spectacularly they're going to improve on 6th place and 64 points.

He's gone into a club mid-season, a club that had lost 4 of their last 7, who sacked yet another manager - one who was very popular with the players - and a squad who got 64 points and came 6th last season with two additional expensive 21 year olds and a £6m right back. I think all things considered his record so far - with a good squad that he's had nothing to do with the creation of - is decent. I don't see what's so provocative about that.

Sure, like I say you can weight it however you want and there is a debate to be had there. My point was that you cannot cherry pick whether these other factors matter or not in accordance with whether it suits your opinion. That's frustrating.

There's nothing provocative about suggesting his record at Chelsea is decent, and if you read back I'm not sure anybody actually suggested that was provocative.

[Glenn Hysen]

Rafa is a good manager, but strange when Liverpoolsupporters must defend him all the time...
He's a Chelski-man now yes?

I really like him but Chelsea??