Rafa Watch

[Kenneth]

I hated watching us then, I really did. Yes, we looked good going forward at times but I found our defending an embarrassment. Even our attacking play was clueless, there was no pattern, it seemed random.

Yes it made for exciting games if you didn't care about the result (and maybe then I cared too much) but it was incredibly frustrating.

I agree with Buzzo. The best I've seen us play consistently since before Dalglish left was two years ago.

Just curious abouthe whole 'no pattern' bit. Since when has being formulaic in attack been a good thing. We had players all over the pitch scoring goal. Boo.

[saj]

christ your delusional when coming to Rafa Arn, he did take a stance last season, but many fought the fight before that. He was not our saviour last season it was a mix of many factors, including supporter groups, an openly poor economic situation and not least our debitors that forced g&h to sell up and a fan-****ing-tastic job by Mr. Broughton.

Next Arn will be telling us Rafa has a bigger influence than the global recession

[Kenneth]

I somehow doubt that unless Rafa is responsible for the credit crunch and global recession. The credit crunch and with the fact RBS is 70% owned by the goverment is the main reason why they are no longer the owners. Also the pressure put on by Purslow, Broughton and co had a major influence. If it wasn't for the Credit crunch, they would still be in charge and that is a fact.

Just classic Arn Rafa bull****.

[Vermilion]

We would most probably not have new owners if it wasn't because Rafa went to war.

Rafa is the main reason to why we got rid of G&H. He started the fight and others finished it off. He saw what damage G&H would do and stopped at nothing to get rid of them to save the club.

He put the club before himself. Not many managers would do that.

Yep, he ceratainly played his part, not the sole reason, but a different manager may have just towed the party line, spouting the same lies as the owners that all will be well in order to save his own skin.

[Neil Young]

Just curious abouthe whole 'no pattern' bit. Since when has being formulaic in attack been a good thing. We had players all over the pitch scoring goal. Boo.

Well, if you call it formulaic then of course that makes sense. But I wouldn't call Barcelona formulaic, yet there is a clear pattern.

It just didn't feel like there was a plan - it was all a bit made up on the spot.

The other thing is I remember reading that Ferguson's plan at that time was simply to stop McManaman. Keep him quiet and you kept the team quiet.

Whereas two years ago we just looked like a machine, like a tank. There was an air of inevitability rather than the desperation of the team under Evans.

[Arn]

christ your delusional when coming to Rafa Arn, he did take a stance last season, but many fought the fight before that. He was not our saviour last season it was a mix of many factors, including supporter groups, an openly poor economic situation and not least our debitors that forced g&h to sell up and a fan-****ing-tastic job by Mr. Broughton.

and why did the supporter groups started in the first place? Maybe it was because a certain manager leaked things to the media to what was going on. If he hadn't done that then supporter groups wouldn't got the massive support they got.

He was prepared to risk his own job doing it but I'm delusional you know...only this year counts......not what happened before this year. That counts for nothing......

[Kenneth]

No, your just generally delusional.

[Kenneth]

He tried to publically pressure them onto spending money they didn't have. The sales and cheap replacements spoke for themselves. Rafa falls out with owners and makes inflammatory remarks in the press. Always has, still does. If he's toned it down last season he would still be here IMO.

[Arn]

Personally, I don't believe that for a minute. Financial realities were always the issue and that's what led to the takeover. The only way you can say rafa made the difference was by finishing 7th and denying them CL money.

What a load of bull****.

What finished G&H off was that the supporter groups mail bombed banks, investment companies and so on to stop them loaning G&H any money.

Supporter groups that started and could continue to fight our corner because we had a manager that backed them all the way. A manager that wasn't prepared to sit quiet in the corner looking on when G&H sold player after player after player to pay the debt.

You would probably been happy if the manager just had sat there in the corner doing nothing and looked on when G&H asset stripped the club.

That asset stripping would have been a lot worse if it wasn't because of Rafa.

Rafa fought to get the power he needed to stop that happening. A fight he bloody well knew could cost him his job and in the end did just that.

Stop talking bull****.

[saj]

Well, if you call it formulaic then of course that makes sense. But I wouldn't call Barcelona formulaic, yet there is a clear pattern.

It just didn't feel like there was a plan - it was all a bit made up on the spot.

The other thing is I remember reading that Ferguson's plan at that time was simply to stop McManaman. Keep him quiet and you kept the team quiet.

Whereas two years ago we just looked like a machine, like a tank. There was an air of inevitability rather than the desperation of the team under Evans.

It was actually his son who said that, Bryan Robson. It was when he managed Middlesborough. The exact quote was: "everyone in the Premiership knows that if you stop McManaman, you stop Liverpool".

I still remember that quote to this day. I remember, Boro' were the only team that used to stick a man marker on him. It actually worked in the League Cup when they knocked us out - I think Marco Branca scored the goals. He stuck some 18 year to follow him around the pitch.

[Neil Young]

It was actually his son who said that, Bryan Robson. It was when Middlesborough. The exact quote was: "everyone in the Premiership knows that if you stop McManaman, you stop Liverpool".

I still remember that quote to this day. I remember, Boro' were the only team that used to stick a man marker on him. It actually worked in the League Cup when they knocked us out - I think Marco Branca scored the goals. He stuck some 18 year to follow him around the pitch.

It also seemed to work in the '96 cup final.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Shaggy]

It was actually his son who said that, Bryan Robson. It was when he managed Middlesborough. The exact quote was: "everyone in the Premiership knows that if you stop McManaman, you stop Liverpool".

I still remember that quote to this day. I remember, Boro' were the only team that used to stick a man marker on him. It actually worked in the League Cup when they knocked us out - I think Marco Branca scored the goals. He stuck some 18 year to follow him around the pitch.

That League Cup semi defeat to Boro was so ****ing depressing.

[saj]

and why did the supporter groups started in the first place? Maybe it was because a certain manager leaked things to the media to what was going on. If he hadn't done that then supporter groups wouldn't got the massive support they got.

He was prepared to risk his own job doing it but I'm delusional you know...only this year counts......not what happened before this year. That counts for nothing......

The supporter groups (namely SOS), were formed after G & H loaded some of the debt onto the club. This was made evident to the public through various sources and not by Rafa.

[Arn]

He tried to publically pressure them onto spending money they didn't have. The sales and cheap replacements spoke for themselves. An supporters were a minor part of the ownership change.

That was the key to the whole takeover. A couple of banks admitted that they didn't loan G&H any money because the supporters maid clear what would happen. It would have been bad business to loan G&H any money because of the pressure from the supporters.

[saj]

That League Cup semi defeat to Boro was so ****ing depressing.

It was awful - I remember it was on ITV. It was a 2 legged game too and if I recall, they weren't even in the premiership at the time.