Rafa Watch

[Reece]

FFS get a grip man - there's having injuries and having 'injuries' as has just been proven, from memory only ever put in one or two performances that would have made you think he was a class player - how long was he here for 4 years????

Who in their right ****ing mind would put him into a team in the CL final - I remember thinking 'Oh ****ing Hell NO' when the team was announced and we all know what happened there...

Rather than look thro' rose coloured glasses at his glittering 'career' with us, just think that he's better off now being known as Mr. Sheree Murphy - just about sums him up IMO

Oh I'm gripping tightly my friend.

I still don't get what your point is RE Kewell. Not sure anyone (apart from the odd Aussie) has ever suggested he had a glittering career with us. But to blame Rafa for that amongst all Kewell's injuries is plain bizarre.

[Chris Kenefick]

But we did win that European Cup final, so everything about Kewell in that game is just irrelevant.

My point was that Rafa played him, in the most important game when he was errr 'unfit' he'd have been better playing Harry Hill than Kewell for all the good he did...

[Fredo]

My point was that Rafa played him, in the most important game when he was errr 'unfit' he'd have been better playing Harry Hill than Kewell for all the good he did...

So what? If his physios advised him that Kewell was 'fit enough' to play at least a part in the match, he was entitled to put him on.

And we won the match, just move on fella.

[Chris Kenefick]

Oh I'm gripping tightly my friend.

I still don't get what your point is RE Kewell. Not sure anyone (apart from the odd Aussie) has ever suggested he had a glittering career with us. But to blame Rafa for that amongst all Kewell's injuries is plain bizarre.

I'm not blaming Rafa for his injuries rather to question his sanity in selecting him in Istanbul - If you had a car that had as many false starts and performed like HK, you'd scrap it rather than put it in for a title deciding Formula 1 race.

[Chris Kenefick]

So what? If his physios advised him that Kewell was 'fit enough' to play at least a part in the match, he was entitled to put him on.

My understanding was that Rafa had HK third on the list to play after Stevie & Carra and that he was strongly advised against playing him from the start, (maybe bring him on later in the match if it needed shaking up) but that Rafa ignored the advise & decided to play him anyway - total lunacy IMO, if we were playing a League Cup match then fair enough, but not in what, (after the semi's) was our most important game in probably 15 years...

My point, I suppose with Rafa was that he never really understood the fans passion for the premiership, and if he didn't understand the passion - he could never have loved the fans as much as he said he did

[Shaggy]

I'm not blaming Rafa for his injuries rather to question his sanity in selecting him in Istanbul - If you had a car that had as many false starts and performed like HK, you'd scrap it rather than put it in for a title deciding Formula 1 race.

[Shaggy]

My point, I suppose with Rafa was that he never really understood the fans passion for the premiership, and if he didn't understand the passion - he could never have loved the fans as much as he said he did

And what basis do you have for this amusing supposition?

[Chris Kenefick]

Deleted see below

[Alex]

My understanding was that Rafa had HK third on the list to play after Stevie & Carra and that he was strongly advised against playing him from the start, (maybe bring him on later in the match if it needed shaking up) but that Rafa ignored the advise & decided to play him anyway - total lunacy IMO, if we were playing a League Cup match then fair enough, but not in what, (after the semi's) was our most important game in probably 15 years...

My point, I suppose with Rafa was that he never really understood the fans passion for the premiership, and if he didn't understand the passion - he could never have loved the fans as much as he said he did

I think he very much understood the passion. I thought at the time he played Kewell because it was the last game, and if he broke down he could have the summer to recover.

I also dont think his love for the fans is in doubt. Especially after singing his name insted of YNWA that night.

[Chris Kenefick]

LOL - Not really, would you have played him?

[Shaggy]

LOL - Not really, would you have played him?

What I would've done is completely irrelevant. We won the European Cup that night, I suggest you get over your little complaint about the starting XI.

[Arn]

PSV destroyed Milan just weeks before we played them, totally destroyed them, using the same tactic Rafa started with.

Very understandable that he used the same tactic.

[Vermilion]

LOL - Not really, would you have played him?

Depends what I had seen him do in training, and whether I thought he would be an asset on that night, and what i'd been told by my medical staff..

[Shaggy]

More posts from that lad on the BBC

What on earth was Benitez playing at with the youth policy at Liverpool prior to his arrival?

It was a massive oversight on his part circa 2001 to not have clairvoyantly instructed the Liverpool youth coaches at that time to select and nurture better players, so that he would be able to make use of them five years later when he became Liverpool manager.

On top of that, the list of talented players that actually came through the ranks during Benitez's early tenure, only to be mistakenly discarded, is galling and firm confirmation of what an awful manager he is. Stephen Warnock, Neil Mellor, Darren Potter, Jack Hobbs, Richie Partridge and Zak Whitbread are just a few of the galacticos Benitez foolishly let slip through his fingers. He has also showed his ungratefulness for these players by 100% revamping the youth system at Liverpool, employing the same coaches that nurtured the current Barca team as youngsters. Now Liverpool are having to make do with youngsters showing very little potential such as Raheem Sterling, Suso, and 2010 UEFA European Under-19 Football Championship Golden boot winner, and Spanish prodigy, Dani Pacheco.

His predecessor Gerard Houllier inherited a rag tag bunch of poor youngsters including Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard and Michael Owen. People might point out that Houllier played Carragher at full back and Gerrard in central midfield, where everyone knows he is at his best. Benitez played Carragher as a centre back to disastrous results in the 2005 European campaign, and moved Gerrard to a support striker role, with halrious consequences as the hapless out of sorts midfielder scored 24 goals in one season becoming footballer of the year. Benitez was even idiotic enough to play Gerrard right wing in 2006, which hugely backfired as Gerrard mustered a measly 23 goals, with Liverpool winning ten consecutive league games. luckily this year sanity was restored and Roy restored Steven to his rightful place in the middle of the park and the team never looked back. Rather worryingly, Kenny Dalglish seems to now have moved him slightly further forward.

But Freddie I is right. It would be a disaster if Benitez were to take charge at somewhere like say - Old Trafford. Especially because he would halt the youth policy that has relentlessly flowed under Ferguson at a consistant rate, with about eight players breaking through in 1995, then none until John O Shea became a decent squad player in the early part of this decade, and now local Salford boys like the Da Silva brothers, Hernandez, and Bebe who the canny Ferguson frugally purchased for 7.5 million just five weeks after he had signed for Vitória de Guimarães on a free transfer.

Freddie is also right to point out the comparitive league positions of Benitez and his predecessors. Those who foolishly defend Benitez by pointing out that his points per game, win ratio, and points totals were higher than his precessors, fail to take into account the fact that Benitez had an easy ride up against novices like Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho and Hiddink. I don't care if Benitez did achieve a points total in 2009 that would have won the league in most other seasons (including this one) on a budget much smaller than his rivals, with Roman Abramovich pumping unprecedented amounts of cash into Chelsea.

His predecessors had to contend with the likes of Bruce Rioch, Ruud Gullit, and Glenn Hoddle. It's all very well people arguing that by the time Benitez left Liverpool, the 15 most expensive signings in Premier League history were all made by Chelsea, Man United or City, and reminding people that in relative terms Houllier and Evans spent much more, or that indeed Roy Evans broke the British transfer record to sign Stan Collymore. But he is still rubbish, as Freddie I and others have highlighted. Look at Robbie Keane. Bought for a large fee, played with mixed effect, sold soon after for a loss. You would never get Harry Redknapp doing that. Not only did Benitez sign a bad player in Keane, but before he was forced to sell him to make interest payments, sometimes he didn't even pick him, and was rightly slaughtered by Jamie "you don't put a 20m pound on the bench Redknapp" such as in the match where Liverpool won at Newcastle 5-1.

Hear hear G4LIVERPOOL post #103

I hated those defensive tactics in 2009, when Liverpool scored 104 goals. Boring! And good shout on the problems he had relating to players. Imagine Ferguson falling out with Jaap Stam, David Beckham or Paul Ince. It would never happen, he's too nice a guy. Luckily, the players Benitez fell out with eventually got their way, with Hodgson appointed and a return to the glory years.

And what I like about your 2005 argument is that it's well thought through, backed by logic, and rational. That Champions League win was all about the determination of the players and won single handedly by Gerrard after he switched to right wing back of his own accord. It was all done in spite of the manager, who was telling them they had already lost, and who also managed to screw up the preceding four legs against Chelsea and Juve. Luckily Benitez was shown up for what he really was the following four years as Liverpool reached another final, a semi final, and a quarter final, luckily getting fortunate wins over Barca, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Real Madrid (who they scraped past 5-0 on aggregate by putting every man behind the ball and defending for their lives).

[Chris Kenefick]

I also dont think his love for the fans is in doubt. Especially after singing his name insted of YNWA that night.

We aren't going to agree on this, but IMO, Rafa was only interested in enhancing HIS reputation - his 'love' for the fans only became apparent after he started having difficulties with the owners - not a popular point of view after winning the CL I know, but that's what I think and I for one will not be glad to see him [apart from the stands] anywhere near Anfield.