Dejan Lovren

[Irishnev]

I know I’m a critic but in fairness his baaaaaad days are much less frequent now

[Mark79]

Except Dejan’s been through an entire flock

[Buzzo]

The ‘You shag one lousy sheep’ theory

[Exiled_red]

I think that the problem Lovren has, or perhaps more accurately the problem that we have with Lovren, is that a few years ago we decided that he was a liability and he's now got that reputation it's difficult to get rid of. It doesn't matter how many games he goes without a mistake, the first time he makes one people jump on him. Players without that baggage don't get as much grief, it's particularly bad as a centre back as your good play doesn't earn you enough credit to overcome the mistake. A horrendous mistake by a forward usually isn't as costly and if they bang in a few goals all is forgiven quickly.

[Red_Polo]

Exactly - singling someone else out, impugning people's motives for their opinions on our own players. These are the reasons it's gone down this road, nothing to do with praising Lovren. Most people apart from the odd cunt have been praising him for some time. It just so happens when Lovren plays well there are usually about 5 players who were even better.

[Mark79]

In fairness, that's only happened because someone agreeing with you has framed it this way by pulling another player down.

Although I don’t think Dom pulled Trent down as such, but you’re right that this only came about by bringing him into it. Not because someone said Lovren had a good game.

[Mark79]

I remember TAA being turned inside out and upside down by Rashford against United too, leading to goals and a defeat.

Anyway, I don't really think I've got anything further to add, so I'll leaving it there.

That’s ok, I can’t really answer that without repeating what I’ve already said anyway

[dom9]

Spurs was 2 years ago. There was also Utd the same season.

More recently there was City in January this year.

Still not much in 2 years you say. Maybe, but he’s only made about 18 league starts since that Utd game.

To be fair, this chat only came about by (fair) criticism of TAA, not Lovren.

I remember TAA being turned inside out and upside down by Rashford against United too, leading to goals and a defeat.

Anyway, I don't really think I've got anything further to add, so I'll leaving it there.

[Mark79]

Players get better though right? Trent has since Klopp came in, so has Dejan. The only mistakes he has made since Klopp came in were v Spurs 3 years ago. I can’t think of any others that have cost us points.

Anyway, I knew posting that he’d had a good game would end up in this sort of chat.

Spurs was 2 years ago. There was also Utd the same season.

More recently there was City in January this year.

Still not much in 2 years you say. Maybe, but he’s only made about 18 league starts since that Utd game.

To be fair, this chat only came about by (fair) criticism of TAA, not Lovren.

[dom9]

In fairness, that's only happened because someone agreeing with you has framed it this way by pulling another player down.

I haven't pulled TAA down. I've highlighted the glaring inconsistency in how the two players are assessed.

[Red_Polo]

Anyway, I knew posting that he’d had a good game would end up in this sort of chat.

In fairness, that's only happened because someone agreeing with you has framed it this way by pulling another player down.

[Buzzo]

Players get better though right? Trent has since Klopp came in, so has Dejan. The only mistakes he has made since Klopp came in were v Spurs 3 years ago. I can’t think of any others that have cost us points.

Anyway, I knew posting that he’d had a good game would end up in this sort of chat.

[Mark79]

I think the point Dom was making was of Lovren makes a mistake he gets loads of abuse whereas other players get a pass.

A mistake is a mistake.

I know, I’ve given my reply on that to Dom.

Lovren has a history of costly mistakes. TAA, while not being perfect defensively, hasn’t. It also has to be taken in consideration how much TAA’s role means he is as much as winger/play maker as he is a defender.

An attacking full back getting caught out of position, losing his man, or losing possession trying to make something? It’s bound to happen.

A centre half doing the same? Not so excusable.

[danperkins]

I think the point Dom was making was of Lovren makes a mistake he gets loads of abuse whereas other players get a pass.

A mistake is a mistake.

it is a fair point.

Had this exact conversation yesterday without fellow red. He loves Trent and so do I but I don't think it is a stretch to say that he attacking game is a lot better than his defensive game. He is the epitome of a modern fullback and is outstanding going forward but does make a lot of defensive mistakes that sometimes are glossed over saying "what he provides going forward is so good that we can forgive a few defensive mistakes".

Am I a fan of Lovren? No, but he is not as car crash as he was. He should not be a starter when Matip is fit but he is a decent 4th choice CB. Unfortunately Matip is a bit of a crock so Dejan will get a lot of games. I would have thought Gomez would have pushed for that CB starting spot but he has looked pretty abysmal since coming back from injury. Also, another CB with a terrible injury record and his injuries have been really serious for one so young.

IMO Dejan will want to be a first 11 CB and might move on this summer. Matip I really like, our best defender this season imo but he does seem to pick up a lot of niggling injuries. I can see us going into the market for another CB in the summer.

[dom9]

I think the point Dom was making was of Lovren makes a mistake he gets loads of abuse whereas other players get a pass.

A mistake is a mistake.

Yep. Kind of.

I'd also expand to say that the word "supporter" includes the word "support".

Too many people just don't. They end up rabidly raving and baying for blood at the first opportunity when it comes to some players.

So rather than queuing up to put the boot in and shouting cunt at everyone that will listen, maybe just be a bit more grown up, civilised and measured in the critique?

I love watching toy throwing the meltdown at Arsenal right now.

We're better than that though surely? Best fans in the world and all that...