Jamie Carragher

[Tee]

He needs to get with the programme. This is 2011 and we live in an ever cosmopolitan society and this notion of mainly home based players is great but they have to be good enough when given a chance.

But TBF they have been so far as Carra should know only too well- just look at the likes of Kelly, Robinson and Flanagan. Or are they given preferential treatment by the Management because they are English?

[Chris]

What you call "exploitation" others call "once in a lifetime opportunity".

Let me ask you this. If you have a son that is a gifted football player, would you stay in the way and say no I will not let you go and joint Barca or Real or LFC as they will "exploit" you there or you will be happy that your child has a chance to not only make it big and earn the living at the level only few will be able to but also gets the free education etc.

What about when the club is not so good though? Theres far more small clubs with crap facilities than vice versa. Its easy to say with Barca and co but what about an offer from VVV Venlo or something?

Theres a definite grey area there I think, its not slavery or anything but equally theres plenty of parents who dont have their kids best interests at heart and see a cash cow.

[Mostar]

At 18 or maybe 17 I would consider it if I know that was his over-riding wish. Any earlier, then no, I wouldn't ship him off to Spain.

I tend to think if you have a chance to take a closer look to see how these academies are run for all age groups and the amount of work that goes behind the scenes and everything else that they provide to these young men besides footballing lessons, your opinion would change.

[RichC]

I can understand him wanting to protect local lads chances of getting into these academies and then pushing on and trying to get into first teams but for me it shouldn't matter where you're from, if you're not good enough and there are better options coming through then you've got to go with the better options.

Essentially it's a fantastic opportunity for anyone regardless of where you come from and those that make the most of the opportunity are the ones that deserve the places.

[Kenneth]

It's a fantastic opportunity for someone who's only and unshakeable desire is to play football for a living. I don't think any 14/15 kids can say that reliably.

[Mostar]

What about when the club is not so good though? Theres far more small clubs with crap facilities than vice versa. Its easy to say with Barca and co but what about an offer from VVV Venlo or something?

Theres a definite grey area there I think, its not slavery or anything but equally theres plenty of parents who dont have their kids best interests at heart and see a cash cow.

Most clubs, big or small, need their local academies to obtain the senior players one day and they need to establish the conditions beyond the footballing motives to attract the young talent that everyone else is going after.

I tend to think, for the most part, that these academies are carefully run operations where players are not only seen as footballers but a great deal of details is devoted to their education and personal upbringing especially as most of them will not make it big.

[Kenneth]

I'd like to see their university application success rate.

[Mostar]

Perhaps you should see their footballing success rate first.

Even though most of them don't make it big, they still have a professional career that help them make more than they would ever make with University degree.

[RedReet]

It's a fantastic opportunity for someone who's only and unshakeable desire is to play football for a living. I don't think any 14/15 kids can say that reliably.

Really?

[cled the red]

:
The point he made about Academies is just plain stupid. Football isn't different to any other job. The companies search the world for the best talents. An English company won't give a **** about if the best talents is English or not.

If you want to stay competitive then you must search the globe for the best talents.

And where exactly has this got us in the past few years?? Le Tallec, Pongolle, Pacheco to name but a few who haven't/don't appear that they're going to be the world class talent that we invested in.

And at the risk of antagonising Arn, Suso has regressed and I now have my doubts about him too.

[little dave hedgehog]

am i missing something, or are many espousing the same views that got arn mocked a page or so previously?

[BillobShaisley]

I think we need to remember the context of the conversation : The England Team

Back when we had jumpers for goal posts and only 3 foreigners a lot more english lads had their chance to develop at big clubs, a look at Shelvey, Wellbeck, Sturidge etc shows that its become that much harder and slower to make that last step up from prospect to 1st team regular at a big club. The big clubs thought they'd get an advantage by removing these restrictions, but it hasn't worked out like that as every other club also now has access to a wider pool of talent. The very best go to the biggest teams, as they would always do anyway evntually just without the transfer fees, but the next best now go to the biggest leagues.

The main difference is that the biggest clubs accross the continent now have 1st pick of the foreigners and re-establish themeselves as the biggest clubs, but the other leagues have become weaker. There was a time when Ajax, Sparta and Anderlecht etc had a chance at winning but now those youngsters that would have gone on in their youth systems are being poached earlier and earlier by the Biggest teams.

So what is the outcome, the big clubs from the big leagues reafirm their leagues position accross the continent which helps the mid level teams in those leagues. The big clubs in weak leagues lose out and the national teams of the big leagues lose out while the mid level nations do well, giving their best a chance at making it abroad with more chances for the next level of youngsters at home.

From an england perspective, very few if any of our kids are going to go to a Foreign academy and there's less space in local academies and first teams for them to progress into.

Much like all the TV money was supposed to help us compete, but it has changed nothing amongst the top clubs who are the same old teams in the same top positions, it's just got a lot more expensive for all fans. Who actually benefits from the changes of modern football, it's not the fans or the nations or 99% of the clubs. It's a few players at the highest level.

[Exiled_red]

I find the fact Carragher comments on England (on numerous occasions) rather odd to be honest, considering he supposedly doesn't really give a **** about the national team (or at least they come 2nd to LFC).

The stuff about developing local talent I can understand as a local boy who came through the youth system, but surely he should want what's best for the club. If the club is to compete we need to develop the best players regardless of where they come from. It would be great to have a team full of locals if they were great players, but having a team full of locals who aren't up to the required standard doesn't do the club any good.

[Baracus]

LFC has a history of one/two world class homegrown local players in its team, sprinkled with 9/10 world class players from other parts of the country and the world when its been successful [irish, scots, welsh].
It was not possible back in th 70s and 80s it won't be possible in the future IMO. Carragher is looking at things in a very insular manner. Heck Everton have tried it and look how far its got them.

[Daniel 7]

Carra is clearly a Little Englander