Originally posted by Mostar
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The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved. -
We could always try to move Kelly into a CB role when Johnson is back but may be too risky and I don't think it is a priority since signing Coates. If we had an injury crisis at CB it may be an option though.Comment
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I thought that game was a good example of Carra's organising skills, and it was good to see the times he was covering for the rest of the defence.
You've got to remember that the other defenders were all inexperienced - Kelly's only 21; Coates is 20; and Robinson is 18.Comment
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I must say Carra defended well until the pen - Spearing didn't help either in the build up to the pen BUT a player of Carra's experience shouldn't have just thrown himself into the tackle imo...Thanks for the memories Rafa - YNWA!Comment
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Not sure what else he could have done.Originally posted by Nick77 View Post
Vicente was 4 yards away from Pepe.
Imo the tackle was his only option given how far he found himself as no one clearly didn't expect Jay to **** up as he did.Member #1 of the Luis Suarez fan clubComment
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Agreed. Can't pin that one on Carra. He's had more than enough to blame him for so far. That one is pushing it a bit.Originally posted by Mostar View Post
Vicente was shaping to shoot, Carra slide in to try block/tackle
Speo was the one in the idiot hat for that pen.Comment
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Two interesting and insightful posts on RAWK. Don't get upset at me, I'm just the messenger.
The problem that both posts identify was there for all to see. Unlike Kev, I lay most of the blame on the defence - the central defenders in particular. Liverpool surrendered possession far too easily v Wolves and in the 2nd half and allowed Wolves to dictate the tempo of the game. Here's one reason why.
Guess how many times Reina gave the ball to Carragher in the match? Ten times? Fifteen? The answer is zero. How many times did he roll it out or kick it to Skrtel? The answer is once (in the 61st minute). You won't find another top team in Europe playing football like that. Here's another one. How many times did Carragher and Skrtel pass the ball to each other? Zero! What this shows is that neither centre back wanted to start attacks. Neither wanted the ball, full stop. Reina occasionally found Kelly and Enrique but most of the time he simply punted the ball up to the forwards (sometimes effectively, I admit).
I looked at what both Carragher and Skrtel did when they had time on the ball and they had options. The results are interesting I think. Carragher was on the ball just 11 times in the game (10 times in the first half, just once in the second). Twice he turned around and passed to Reina for a hoof, 5 times he hoofed himself (finding a Red shirt once), twice he found Henderson, once he found Enrique, and once he passed the ball to a Wolves forward. Needless to say he didn't once move with the ball at his feet.
Skrtel was on the ball a mere 10 times. Twice he passed back to Reina, twice he found Lucas, once he found Adam, once he found Carroll, once he found Henderson, once he went on a mazy run and drew a foul (and booking) from Henry, once he gave the ball to the Wolves midfield and once he miscued the ball into touch.
You can't play possession football if two of your players never want the ball. It can't be done. Not in the modern game. It's the main reason why we were 'under the cosh' as Al says. Our midfield was too often 'peripheral' - as Kev says - because the central defenders showed no interest in making themselves available for a pass and moving the ball on quickly and to a Red shirt.
In addition, as we all know,the defence plays far too deep, leaving massive gaps for the opposition to play in. Fortunately the Wolves midfield had players like Henry in it - a player who finds it difficult to turn on the ball and run towards the opposition goal, drawing defenders towards him. Modric and Parker didn't have that problem last week. There's simply too much space for the opposition to play football when we don't have the ball.
Carragher crossed the half-way line once in the entire match. It was in the 76th minute where he made a nice interception on the right. He was about a yard into the Wolves half. That sort of football will save his legs and prolong his career for another two or three seasons. Suarez will be gone by then.
Allright Timbo, I think the problem with the 'better the Devil you know' philosophy is that we never get to find out what the other devils are like. Carragher plays in every game - league and cups. It took several seasons before we ever saw what Agger and Skrtel (two full internationals) were like as a partnership. Even now they can't have played more than 5 games together as a centre-back partnership. After almost 18 months we have no idea what Wilson - another full international - is like at centre back. He hasn't played there once. We once got a little taste of Ayala, but he quickly dropped out of the frame without having done anything wrong. We never saw San Jose, who left us for Bilbao and quickly became one of the best centre backs in La Liga. Many of us thought Kelly's natural position would be centre back but again there was a roadblock.
So the question becomes: How do you develop 'significantly better alternatives' when it's almost impossible to get a game?
They don't ask that question at Old Trafford. We never used to ask it either. Look at how Thompson and Hansen (untested kids both) broke into the first eleven. Larry Lloyd and Emlyn Hughes - one wearing a league championship medal, the other a European cup winner's medal - simply had to move on. It was brutal. It was wise.
Coates is Carragher's biggest challenge yet, for the obvious reason that Agger is now our number one centre back. Unfortunately Agger is injured at the moment (that's the 67th time I've written that sentence on RAWK). I say 'unfortuately' because it means that Coates's initial opportunities are coming alongside Carragher. Years ago that would have been a good thing. Right now, with Carragher playing this weird role where he retreats to his own goalline and tries to avoid receiving the ball, it's a big ask for a new defender to slot him beside him. Coates will have never played alongside a centre back anything like Jamie. ("A teammate you cannot pass to? Really? A player who can't move with the ball?") We'll get a better chance to judge how good Coates is when he's playing alongside Agger.
But the way things are going that may be years down the line. No joke. 'Better the Devil you know'.Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’Comment
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First one is really good apart from the dig at the end. Its clearly a problem but theres not much we can do about it till January or the end of the season. Still think his biggest problem is his declining defensive ability though, the crap passing was tolerated before.
Second one is a bit crap I think and kind of implies Kenny is a bit of a ****house which I dont agree with at all. San Jose isnt one of the best defenders in La Liga, Wilson is clearly nowhere near ready, the teams in for Ayala said it all and Kelly has been excellent at right back while Glen Johnson spends all his time injured so he clearly cant go CB yet.Comment
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Aye pretty much agree with that.Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’Comment
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Originally posted by Chris View Post - yeha the first post is very good if all those stats are true. We could afford one player in the team like that but to have two alongside each other is pretty worrying
going back a few years I was at so many games when the following scenario happened....
We'd be 0-0 at home to a team like wolves and we couldn't break them down....they had ten behind the ball, so much so, that Xabi Alonso used to drop deep, deep into virtually centre halve so he could get on the ball!! - i remember screaming....take off one of the centre halves for a forward, because the role xabi had retreated too (no critisicm at all towards him here) meant that he was virtually playing centre back anyway so take one of the redundant centre halves off
I can't remember exactly, but i'd be willing to guess that this only happened when Agger wasn't playing and i assume Xabi probably felt he had to go deep and get the ball.
the second post is ****ei own everton fans on the internet....that's what i doComment
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i've said before, and whilst i agree it's not the full answer, it'll certainly help - we should really be in for Gary Cahill in January.
Get him in, assess Agger's fitness...if he is capable of contributing till the end of the season, keep him and sell skrtel - if he's still crocked **** him off and sell agger.
In the summer look to sign another top centre half and sell whoever stayed out of agger/skrtel.
Start next season with
New centre half
Cahill
Coates
Carragher
i own everton fans on the internet....that's what i doComment
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Cahill would probably add a fair bit because he can play. Totally unconvinced by his defending though.Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’Comment
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We'd also stick a top tackling box to box midfield in front of them to to add a bit more protection
i own everton fans on the internet....that's what i doComment
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