Jamie Carragher

[Fredo]

As Gary Neville so rightly put it, individual mistakes aren't brought on by bad coaching they're either bad players or mentally weak players.

Wow that is a sweeping statement.

[MrMichael]

He's not good enough, an indian summer of a couple games isn't the 2nd coming of Carra the saviour.
It's not a criticism for the sake of it but he is 34, you don't get into the top 4 or even the top 6 relying on 34/35 year olds.

Nobody's suggesting it is the 2nd coming. The question was whether we could ever do better for a 4th choice CB next season. I really don't think, on the evidence of all his performances for us this season, that we could. The issue isn't relying on him, its having someone reliable to come in for a few games in the case of injuries, suspensions etc.

Skrtel isn't good enough either and Agger is borderline, as fans we're blinkered into thinking all our players are amazing.
Reina/Skrtel/Carra/Agger have been the goalkeeper and centre backs when we've finished 6th/7th/8th or wherever in whatever order.
Not good enough.

As RedReet's pointed out, your assumption re. league positions is flawed, however I do sort of agree with you that some of our fanbase have overrated our defence of late. I've seen Agger/Skrtel described as the best in the league, or among the best in Europe, and I just don't see that. They're decent to good as a pair, but nowhere near great. And anyone who wouldn't have sold Skrtel for £20m last summer, if we were actually being offered that, needs their head examining.

We definitely need another top class defender, and then we need to see how well Agger plays with them. Skrtel I would have as a 3rd choice, but then I'd also sell to a good offer.

[rudedog]

Absolute nonsense IMO.

For a start we are not relying on Carragher and although you’ve already mentioned Ferdinand a few others come to mind such as Gallas, Sol Campbell or Steve Bruce so that’s clearly not true.

Your logic that our poor league finishes is an accurate reflection of their ability is also ridiculous as our defensive record was 3rd best in two of those years and 5th best the years we finished 6th, so that would suggest the problem isn’t with our defence.

You’re right we might have to buy two new CB’s in the summer because if the bigger clubs come calling again, who’d be surprised if two of our better players left?

I suppose I should be too surprised after some of the crap written about Suarez and Gerrard on here after a few poor performances, but to rip out the core of our defence and start from scratch after a couple of individual errors just smacks of knee-jerk to me.

Don't forget big Sami too - left us when he was 34/35 and went on to play over 60 games for Leverkusen.

[tanner]

He's not good enough, an indian summer of a couple games isn't the 2nd coming of Carra the saviour.
It's not a criticism for the sake of it but he is 34, you don't get into the top 4 or even the top 6 relying on 34/35 year olds. Ferdinand at Utd is an exception but he has always been and still is now streets ahead of Carra as a defender and he plays in a much better team.

Skrtel isn't good enough either and Agger is borderline, as fans we're blinkered into thinking all our players are amazing.
Reina/Skrtel/Carra/Agger have been the goalkeeper and centre backs when we've finished 6th/7th/8th or wherever in whatever order.
Not good enough.

Take Man City's goals yesterday, Carra is too far off Aguero because he's frightened to get tight, Agger has dropped too deep which you do when you don't trust the person you're playing alongside, he then loses Dzeko the same way RvP lost him the other week.

Reina's mistake is inexcusable, just bollocks **** decision making.

As Gary Neville so rightly put it, individual mistakes aren't brought on by bad coaching they're either bad players or mentally weak players.

We need to sign at least 2 centre backs in the summer.
And a left back.

And I wouldn't be fussed if we lost Reina as well. The games he makes mistakes in and costs us far outweigh the ones he keeps us in with amazing saves.
Btw, when was the last time he saved a penalty? he saved them all the time in his 1st 2 years

At last someone else who agrees with me about Agger and Skrtel. Agger is way overrated by a lot of LFC fans and Skrtel is so average it hurts.

Dont expect anyone else to agree though

We should've bitten off Citys hand when they came in for Agger, an opportunity like that will not come in again.

[RedReet]

At last someone else who agrees with me about Agger and Skrtel. Agger is way overrated by a lot of LFC fans and Skrtel is so average it hurts.

Dont expect anyone else to agree though

We should've bitten off Citys hand when they came in for Agger, an opportunity like that will not come in again.

I always felt Agger's defensive skills were way underrated by most because he was so comfortable on the ball and it wasn't until recent years that he started getting credit for it. Yes, he has made a few mistakes this year and hasn't looked his best, but so too did Suarez last year and I've no doubt Agger will also bounce back. I honestly wouldn't swap him for any defender in the PL.

Skrtel I had my doubts about but was happy to be proven wrong when he was arguably one of our best and most consistent players over 18 months when the rest of the team was struggling. He is a very good player and for a mid-table PL team is probably as good as we could hope for and IMO wouldn't be as easy to replace as some may think.

I also don't think our defensive problems are as bad as made out. I've already mentioned that our defense is generally in the top 4 in the league, and although not up to that standard this year, since our only DM Lucas came back we've kept 5 clean sheets in 11 which isn't too bad when you consider 3 of those games were away to United, Arsenal and City. So on the whole I do think we're alright at the back but we do seem to struggle with powerful teams/players as Stoke and Villa/Benteke recently proved so maybe we could do with bringing in someone with a bit more presence at the back for these type of matches.

[Fredo]

Mid table team? Think we were one at the beginning of the season but no more now.

[Captain Stu]

I think Agger is having a bad patch but is far better than his performances suggest while I think Skrtel might actually be playing at his level and last season's form might have been somewhat of a fluke/bit of good fortune for us.

[Tee]

I think the Agger and Skrtel partnership suffered from a lack of protection from the DM areas. Clearly their form has taken a battering but I think it is more a confidence issue with Skrtel especially. I also expect him to reclaim his place sooner rather than later and hopefully get back to the form that made him so highly regarded.

[RedReet]

Mid table team? Think we were one at the beginning of the season but no more now.

Well hopefully we won't finish there but we're currently 7th and have finished there or below twice in the past 3 years and 6th wasn't much of a step up. 7th won't be getting us in to Europe this year, so we'd be no better off than those other mid table teams and I think we could struggle to get an experienced defender in as good as Skrtel.

[Imy]

He's not good enough, an indian summer of a couple games isn't the 2nd coming of Carra the saviour.
It's not a criticism for the sake of it but he is 34, you don't get into the top 4 or even the top 6 relying on 34/35 year olds. Ferdinand at Utd is an exception but he has always been and still is now streets ahead of Carra as a defender and he plays in a much better team.

Skrtel isn't good enough either and Agger is borderline, as fans we're blinkered into thinking all our players are amazing.
Reina/Skrtel/Carra/Agger have been the goalkeeper and centre backs when we've finished 6th/7th/8th or wherever in whatever order.
Not good enough.

Take Man City's goals yesterday, Carra is too far off Aguero because he's frightened to get tight, Agger has dropped too deep which you do when you don't trust the person you're playing alongside, he then loses Dzeko the same way RvP lost him the other week.

Reina's mistake is inexcusable, just bollocks **** decision making.

As Gary Neville so rightly put it, individual mistakes aren't brought on by bad coaching they're either bad players or mentally weak players.

We need to sign at least 2 centre backs in the summer.
And a left back.

And I wouldn't be fussed if we lost Reina as well. The games he makes mistakes in and costs us far outweigh the ones he keeps us in with amazing saves.
Btw, when was the last time he saved a penalty? he saved them all the time in his 1st 2 years

Pretty much where i'm at with the defence, it's the next area the manager needs to rebuild.

[ronanm]

I think Agger is good enough. I don't think he's the world beater some think he is. Carragher is better defensively imo

[Shaggy]

FWIW Agger was last night presented with the Denmark POTY award, likewise Skrtel got the Slovakian POTY award.

[dom9]

So, question now is, with the exception of Bootroom, who would think about giving Jamie another year?

Obviously we'd want to cut that wage significantly to reflect what would only be a backup position, but realistically, are we going to have a better 4th choice CB next season than him? He brings us experience, leadership, organisation and total 100% commitment to the cause. Not saying he should be in the first XI, but if he feels he has the energy for it and is willing to do what Sami did (parallels there, how long were people saying his legs had gone for?) and stay around to help us when needed?

We need to do some surgery to that defence, Coates almost definitely and very possibly Skrtel too we might want to bring in replacements for, personally in an entirely unsentimental way I can see us benefiting from some consistency and keeping Carra on.

Why not, but pay him wages commensurate with his market rate / contribution to the team.

[Darkon]

If as Ayre said recently, that LFC will start to make performance based contracts, then surely that is what Carra will be getting from the summer, which I think could be perfect for his role. A basic salary and then performance/appearance bonuses from there on!

[Sarb]

We'll miss him when he's gone though for sure. He's a talker and an organiser. Think we looked a lot more solid against City and that is probably in part down to him and his organisation skills and his sheer determination.

If we can't get a leader/talker in the Summer then he will get an extension I think. Will be on this new performance related pay structure we have now though I think. Either way, if he retires, we need to keep him at the club in some capacity