Jordan Henderson

[Exiled_red]

I don’t think people do underestimate that. It’s more about weighing that value up against what it costs you when it comes in the from of regressing players.

Continuing with such players comes with its own risk as much as too many new players does.

We’d all have preferred if the midfield rebuild had started at least a couple of summers ago and been done in stages for more of a seamless transition. But we are where we are.

The issue with those players regressing was partly due to the amount of football they had played because of the lack of availability of others. Managing their minutes which was clearly the plan with Henderson would IMO allow you to get more from him when he does play, same applies to Fabinho, he had a poor season last year but was looking better towards the end, so I suspect he isn't as finished as some would like to suggest.

I terms of what we have done so far we have replaced 3 squad midfielders (Ox, Keita and Milner) with a couple or younger fresher and likely starters in the side, we have lost Milner's experience, but with Henderson Thiago and Fabinho around that isn't such a problem. Let a couple more of the experienced guys go and we are replacing that experience with a 24, 22 year old and possibly a 19 yo (Lavia) it's a big change all in one go. You can say the guys we have brought in are experienced for their age, but I still think not having that experience in the dressing room is a big loss.

[Phoenix07]

You have a point of course. However we try and mitigate that risk by players who are prime to play into a system rather than a vanity signing like united with Sanchez/Veron etc.

You are right with Keita, he just wasn't ready for a big club - never had the personality for it IMO. Anyway, last year's Chelsea also back up your point, its always a good idea to introduce 3-4 players from a position of strength but that ship has sailed.

Hendo is 33, Fabinho is 29, there's about 6 years in them tops and what they can offer us on the pitch is questionable let's say. If we can recoup £60m + wages for them now rather than let their contracts expire then that makes absolute financial sense, if not entirely footballing sense.

I'd say with past examples of wholesale changes coming in i.e. Spurs after selling Bale, us after selling Suarez, and Chelsea last season, there was no real plan in place for them. They were all over the place, and difficult to see what each team was trying to do.

However, you could look at Jose Mourinho when he first went to Chelsea and signed 9 players (some were pre-contract agreements, but nevertheless, they were new faces in the same window). One of them hardly featured, and another had to go out on loan (Alex), but he had seven other bodies to fit in. He gelled them into a winning machine.

I think the advantage we have now, is that we'll have the data covering all the positions on the pitch, the players who could come in and do a good job now, while those relationships develop over time.

[Doc_Piptorious]

bet he can't wait to get involved in these high quality drills

https://twitter.com/AnfieldRd96/stat...81716463874049

And we laughed at Tony Adams

[Mark79]

Obviously there were issues last season and have been for years and yes one new play does mean a new unit, but it's easier to transition one new player into a side than 3, particularly if they are all in the same area of the pitch this is because the existing player has relationships with the other players in the team I think people here under estimate the value of that type of experience, knowing the run Salah is about to make because you have played together for years, that could nick you a win. No matter how good the individual players we might bring in are I think there are big risks of bad or heavy defeats because the players don't know the system or each other well enough, I think with the number of changes we are making there is a danger we will see that in the first half of the season in particular.

I don’t think people do underestimate that. It’s more about weighing that value up against what it costs you when it comes in the from of regressing players.

Continuing with such players comes with its own risk as much as too many new players does.

We’d all have preferred if the midfield rebuild had started at least a couple of summers ago and been done in stages for more of a seamless transition. But we are where we are.

[labourRed]

They are fairly proven elsewhere and as I say we obviously hope that they work out, but you could say Keita was fairly well proven when we signed him but transfers don't always work out, look at the number of big money flops, most were proven at some level otherwise they wouldn't have commanded those fees, there is risk with any signing, overhauling a whole area of the team compounds that risk.

You have a point of course. However we try and mitigate that risk by players who are prime to play into a system rather than a vanity signing like united with Sanchez/Veron etc.

You are right with Keita, he just wasn't ready for a big club - never had the personality for it IMO. Anyway, last year's Chelsea also back up your point, its always a good idea to introduce 3-4 players from a position of strength but that ship has sailed.

Hendo is 33, Fabinho is 29, there's about 6 years in them tops and what they can offer us on the pitch is questionable let's say. If we can recoup £60m + wages for them now rather than let their contracts expire then that makes absolute financial sense, if not entirely footballing sense.

[rudedog]

Heard you the first time

Edited and it created a new post

[Norbs]

Maybe he's going there as a rainbow laces ambassador to change things from within.

Don't mess with the missionary man <insert pronoun>

Maybe he's going there as a rainbow laces ambassador to change things from within.

Don't mess with the missionary man them

Heard you the first time

[rudedog]

Maybe he's going there as a rainbow laces ambassador to change things from within.

Don't mess with the missionary man them

[rudedog]

Dupe

[kingfunk]

Paul Gorst on Jordan Henderson's Saudi Arabia links:
"The real issue, though, is why would Henderson entertain such a move? While competition for a place in the midfield is likely to be at its most fierce since he moved from Sunderland in 2011, following the arrivals of Dominik Szoboszlai and Alexis Mac Allister - particularly given he is now 33 - a transfer to the Saudi Pro League would undo so much of the good work Henderson has done off the pitch, particularly the Rainbow Laces campaign for which he is a vocal ambassador for. To contrast that with a move to a country where same-sex relationships remain illegal would be difficult to square, however you painted it." #LFC

[S-RED]

A logical explanation (yes, I know wanting to sign "Capt Crooner" defies all logic, but hear me out here) could be that the reports of "700K per week" are seriously wide of the mark, and the main financial advantages are in regard to tax-free earnings, hence the Saudi's being reluctant to pay a transfer fee. The offer could simply be a net doubling of his money, plus an extra year compared to his current deal - under those circumstances a free/minimal fee seems entirely reasonable.

yeah, its more like half of that figure, but tax free.

[Exiled_red]

The young and unproven Bajcetic xame in last year and was by far and away our best midfielder. He mastered the dm position, and when fabinho came back he moved into the rcm slot and looked like a veteran.
I'm more than happy to have him cover the dm position and if he plays alongside lavia in a deep two then we should be sound.

Don't forget, they won't have the tired legs of hendo and fabinho around them, so slob and maccy can help cover the ground.

He has played about 10 games for us, I want to see young players to come through and do well, but IMO it's far too early to be relying on him as a regular member of the squad. I don't think Lavia would be ready to be a regular in the DM role in our side at the moment, no way would I want those two as our only DM options.

[Exiled_red]

I know. You’re saying that it’s necessary to have a midfield that have played together. Yet that’s what we had last season, and we didn’t hit the ground running then either.

One of Hendo or Fab starting with the new signings is still a new midfield that haven’t played together before.

That’s why I’m saying there’s a case for a reset with the midfield, rather than persevering with declining players. It’s likely going to be a transition season for us anyway.

Obviously there were issues last season and have been for years and yes one new play does mean a new unit, but it's easier to transition one new player into a side than 3, particularly if they are all in the same area of the pitch this is because the existing player has relationships with the other players in the team I think people here under estimate the value of that type of experience, knowing the run Salah is about to make because you have played together for years, that could nick you a win. No matter how good the individual players we might bring in are I think there are big risks of bad or heavy defeats because the players don't know the system or each other well enough, I think with the number of changes we are making there is a danger we will see that in the first half of the season in particular.

[Exiled_red]

I think McAllister and Szoboszlai are fairly proven, low risk signings. I'm just not sure Szoboszlai is suited to the midfield three. We'll find the answer soon enough.

Bajcetic is one I'm very excited about. He's has a fair amount of experience already and has a super high ceiling IMO. As you say he is young and should be managed as he grows.

They are fairly proven elsewhere and as I say we obviously hope that they work out, but you could say Keita was fairly well proven when we signed him but transfers don't always work out, look at the number of big money flops, most were proven at some level otherwise they wouldn't have commanded those fees, there is risk with any signing, overhauling a whole area of the team compounds that risk.

[baitman]

The young and unproven Bajcetic xame in last year and was by far and away our best midfielder. He mastered the dm position, and when fabinho came back he moved into the rcm slot and looked like a veteran.
I'm more than happy to have him cover the dm position and if he plays alongside lavia in a deep two then we should be sound.

Don't forget, they won't have the tired legs of hendo and fabinho around them, so slob and maccy can help cover the ground.