Jordan Henderson

[Pablo]

I'm slightly concerned our midfield is broken post Gini.

Fab is number 1.

Thiago is always injured and he doesn't have the intensity we need imo. He's used to setting the tempo but he plays so slowly, he's like a conductor trying to control an unruly orchestra marching off.

Jones is stuck doing a poor mans Gini impression than being able to make his own role and play to his strengths.

Milner is fine but not long term.

Worried about Hendersons legs.

AOC looks done, Keita is Keita.

We were robbed of Elliotts break out season.

I think a refresh is needed, Fab plus Elliott/Jones the only must keeps.

Will be interesting to see formation and shape over the next few games to see us to the international break.

Midfield is definitely looking like it requires a rebuild soon.

We really do need to keep investing or it is inevitable we'll fall behind at some point.

That midfield is screaming out for a big signing like Jude Bellingham, but can we, or will we, be willing to spend like that again?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Gini was run into the ground last season.

Seems pretty apparent that it wasn’t Klopp’s wish to let him go either.

Either way, it’s still hard to imagine our midfield being such a walkthrough against Brentford, City and Brighton with him in the team.

He is not being run into the ground at PSG and has been crap for them since pre season. Sure excuses will be made by him and his agent for that, but then again he has spent the past five or six months making similar comments about us and also Barca so I take what he and his agents say with more than a pinch of salt.I just don't buy that he would be a difference maker had he not left.

The Gini of the seasons before last season would have been a difference maker as he was immense at times and his bad days back then were still usually a 7 out of 10, the Gini of last season and the Gini of PSG no. All he would provide, imho of course, is a fit body that got ran past a lot.

I still hold that no Gini is not the problem in midfield this season, the problem for me is nobody came in to take the place of, or compete with, one or more of the unreliable and/or aging players.

[SB]

He is not being run into the ground at PSG and has been crap for them since pre season. Sure excuses will be made by him and his agent for that, but then again he has spent the past five or six months making similar comments about us and also Barca so I take what he and his agents say with more than a pinch of salt.I just don't buy that he would be a difference maker had he not left.

The Gini of the seasons before last season would have been a difference maker as he was immense at times and his bad days back then were still usually a 7 out of 10, the Gini of last season and the Gini of PSG no. All he would provide, imho of course, is a fit body that got ran past a lot.

I still hold that no Gini is not the problem in midfield this season, the problem for me is nobody came in to take the place of, or compete with, one or more of the unreliable and/or aging players.

He did but he got injured unfortunately. His name of course is Harvey Elliot.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Midfield is definitely looking like it requires a rebuild soon.

We really do need to keep investing or it is inevitable we'll fall behind at some point.

That midfield is screaming out for a big signing like Jude Bellingham, but can we, or will we, be willing to spend like that again?

Does it have to be a big signing though?

Bellingham I rate very highly but say Dortmund stick to their 100m price tag.

Right now Kessie is going to be available on a free next summer so you would have to imagine he could go for a somewhat reasonable fee in January. Only 24 and a very good midfielder that would had serious mobility and physicality whilst offering a string defensive and offensive side.

Nkunku's release clause kicks in next summer and is meant to be around 35m to 40m. So RB might be willing to listen to an offer a bit more than that in January. He would be one that would slot into an advanced midfield role and also be able to offer cover in attack. High workrate too when it comes to tracking back.

Tchouameni is 21 and looks like he might be another that goes on to be a top class player. Yes he would be more expensive that the first two names and might be in around the 50 to 60m range, but can play as a deep playmaker, can defend and can play as a numnber 6 or a number 8 and is quick, strong and goes box to box with ease when used that way.


And if we are talking teens with a very high ceiling but who already look the business then Gravenberch would have to get a shout, but he has a turd of an agent but would imagine him costing less than Bellingham too. Tall, fast, strong, very progressive on the ball and will track back and help out at the back.


No doubt there are loads of other quality midfielders other than the more obvious ones I named, but I think Bellingham money could bring in two midfielders that would be good enough to compete with our current starters whilst still being young enough to be the future.

[Doc_Piptorious]

He did but he got injured unfortunately. His name of course is Harvey Elliot.

I see him as more one for the future but you are correct.


Think what we are lacking are a few guys who have the physicality, pace and stamina to force games whilst also having the technical ability to work in a team like ours.

[Mark79]

He is not being run into the ground at PSG and has been crap for them since pre season. Sure excuses will be made by him and his agent for that, but then again he has spent the past five or six months making similar comments about us and also Barca so I take what he and his agents say with more than a pinch of salt.I just don't buy that he would be a difference maker had he not left.

The Gini of the seasons before last season would have been a difference maker as he was immense at times and his bad days back then were still usually a 7 out of 10, the Gini of last season and the Gini of PSG no. All he would provide, imho of course, is a fit body that got ran past a lot.

I still hold that no Gini is not the problem in midfield this season, the problem for me is nobody came in to take the place of, or compete with, one or more of the unreliable and/or aging players.

I’m just saying I think whatever form issues last season were very likely down to fatigue. Whatever issues he’s currently having playing for another team and manager is a separate matter.

He may still have been feeling the effects of last season if he were still here, but we simply don’t know that a more rotated Gini would be having the same season for us as he is for PSG.

I only referred to Klopp’s comments on him leaving us, not Gini’s or his agents.

[Exiled_red]

Midfield is definitely looking like it requires a rebuild soon.

We really do need to keep investing or it is inevitable we'll fall behind at some point.

That midfield is screaming out for a big signing like Jude Bellingham, but can we, or will we, be willing to spend like that again?

A number of us were saying that in the summer, despite on paper it looking good and well stacked numbers wise that really isn't the case when you take into account injury records.

Naby and Thiago are constantly picking up injuries, Henderson and Fabinho are prone it picking up at least 2 or 3 niggles a season causing them to miss handfuls of games at a time. Milner's 36 in January and is only really good for one game a week. Ox looks done as a starter, seems ok for 20 min cameo's but that seems to be about it. Jones and Elliott are still developing and each really needs to be playing with a couple of experienced players alongside them.

Letting Wijnaldum go is just looking a worse decision by the week. I think we need to bring in at least 2 new CMs in the next year and move on some of the guys who just aren't doing it. Balance of the midfield is also an issue, without Fabinho we really don't looked balanced, we need someone else who can play that role.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I’m just saying I think whatever form issues last season were very likely down to fatigue. Whatever issues he’s currently having playing for another team and manager is a separate matter.

He may still have been feeling the effects of last season if he were still here, but we simply don’t know that a more rotated Gini would be having the same season for us as he is for PSG.

I only referred to Klopp’s comments on him leaving us, not Gini’s or his agents.

No that is true, but is also just as true that we do not know if he would have been the difference maker for us in the middle this season. All we can go on is his form for us last season, if we are to discount how that form has continued this season with his new team, and that form was not good regardless of reason and if being overplayed is/was an issue then he would have potentially been facing the exact same this season given our injuries and lack of other cover.


I just feel that Gini is getting a bit of the rose tinted glasses treatment atm which to be fair we have all done with a lot of other players after they left and we went through a sticky patch be it results or, as is our current case, player availability.

My thinking is that even if he never left we still would be in a position where we needed at least one or two other reliable players coming in and that has not changed for me. So rightly or wrongly I will still maintain that not bringing in players to challenge/replace some of the less reliable and/or aging players was our mistake in the summer and it is not a case of being wise after the event as it is something that was being said a lot at the start of the transfer window.

[Mark79]

No that is true, but is also just as true that we do not know if he would have been the difference maker for us in the middle this season. All we can go on is his form for us last season, if we are to discount how that form has continued this season with his new team, and that form was not good regardless of reason and if being overplayed is/was an issue then he would have potentially been facing the exact same this season given our injuries and lack of other cover.


I just feel that Gini is getting a bit of the rose tinted glasses treatment atm which to be fair we have all done with a lot of other players after they left and we went through a sticky patch be it results or, as is our current case, player availability.

My thinking is that even if he never left we still would be in a position where we needed at least one or two other reliable players coming in and that has not changed for me. So rightly or wrongly I will still maintain that not bringing in players to challenge/replace some of the less reliable and/or aging players was our mistake in the summer and it is not a case of being wise after the event as it is something that was being said a lot at the start of the transfer window.

Maybe, but the argument is that we might not have fatigue injuries in the first place to Thiago, Milner, Naby, if we’d also had Gini in rotation and so none of them would be getting overplayed.

Not saying for sure he would have made a difference, just it’s hard to imagine our midfield with him in it ever lacking the control and being overrun like against Brentford, City, Brighton.

I do agree that the midfield needs a referb.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Maybe, but the argument is that we might not have fatigue injuries in the first place to Thiago, Milner, Naby, if we’d also had Gini in rotation and so none of them would be getting overplayed.

Not saying for sure he would have made a difference, just it’s hard to imagine our midfield with him in it ever lacking the control and being overrun like against Brentford, City, Brighton.

I do agree that the midfield needs a referb.

To be honest I can as we saw that happening last season in a good number games in which he started.


Not sure we can use the fatigue arguement in relation to Thiago, Milner and Keita either.

Milner is at an age where he needs his game minutes managed regardless.

Thiago and Keita have the ability to pick up injuries at any time and have proven that even without being overplayed they are prone to such. Now I really rate both of those player, however both do fall under the unreliable banner (which is not the same as me saying get rid though, more that we need to bring in more to compete with them and then make decisions at a later date, whereas with Chamberlain I am very much at the replace stage) for me and as such cannot be counted on in good times let alone when the other main starters are having issues.

But it is easy for me to say just bring in X or Y, when the truth is we probably would need a way to move numbers out to allow for incoming.


Either way though your last line is something we both agree upon and hopefully we get that in January with at least one midfielder coming in.

But unlike last season when we had CB dropping left right and centre, this season we seem to have gotten back that nice habit of continuing to pick up points even with players missing so with a bit of luck we can continue that until we reach the next transfer window.

[Mark79]

To be honest I can as we saw that happening last season in a good number games in which he started.


Not sure we can use the fatigue arguement in relation to Thiago, Milner and Keita either.

Milner is at an age where he needs his game minutes managed regardless.

Thiago and Keita have the ability to pick up injuries at any time and have proven that even without being overplayed they are prone to such. Now I really rate both of those player, however both do fall under the unreliable banner (which is not the same as me saying get rid though, more that we need to bring in more to compete with them and then make decisions at a later date, whereas with Chamberlain I am very much at the replace stage) for me and as such cannot be counted on in good times let alone when the other main starters are having issues.

But it is easy for me to say just bring in X or Y, when the truth is we probably would need a way to move numbers out to allow for incoming.


Either way though your last line is something we both agree upon and hopefully we get that in January with at least one midfielder coming in.

But unlike last season when we had CB dropping left right and centre, this season we seem to have gotten back that nice habit of continuing to pick up points even with players missing so with a bit of luck we can continue that until we reach the next transfer window.

We can though, because they are all currently out with fatigue related injuries.

[Doc_Piptorious]

We can though, because they are all currently out with fatigue related injuries.

And my point is that even if we had a full squad and the ability to rotate that the same three, based on their track records and/or age in the case of Milner, could just as well be out with injuries. So when it comes to those three they would fall under being unreliable regardless for me.

Which would still put us in the same position of having to overplay the cover and also hoping the cover stayed fit at the same time.


I think whether we go down the route of saying it is down to fatigue or saying it is a case of some players haven proven to be unreliable, it still boils down to both of us saying the same thing is needed going forward.

[Fosterbloke]

Does it have to be a big signing though?

Bellingham I rate very highly but say Dortmund stick to their 100m price tag.

Right now Kessie is going to be available on a free next summer so you would have to imagine he could go for a somewhat reasonable fee in January. Only 24 and a very good midfielder that would had serious mobility and physicality whilst offering a string defensive and offensive side.

Nkunku's release clause kicks in next summer and is meant to be around 35m to 40m. So RB might be willing to listen to an offer a bit more than that in January. He would be one that would slot into an advanced midfield role and also be able to offer cover in attack. High workrate too when it comes to tracking back.

Tchouameni is 21 and looks like he might be another that goes on to be a top class player. Yes he would be more expensive that the first two names and might be in around the 50 to 60m range, but can play as a deep playmaker, can defend and can play as a numnber 6 or a number 8 and is quick, strong and goes box to box with ease when used that way.


And if we are talking teens with a very high ceiling but who already look the business then Gravenberch would have to get a shout, but he has a turd of an agent but would imagine him costing less than Bellingham too. Tall, fast, strong, very progressive on the ball and will track back and help out at the back.


No doubt there are loads of other quality midfielders other than the more obvious ones I named, but I think Bellingham money could bring in two midfielders that would be good enough to compete with our current starters whilst still being young enough to be the future.

The game has come a long way since the Three Degrees (Cunningham, Regis and Batson).

[Mark79]

And my point is that even if we had a full squad and the ability to rotate that the same three, based on their track records and/or age in the case of Milner, could just as well be out with injuries. So when it comes to those three they would fall under being unreliable regardless for me.

Which would still put us in the same position of having to overplay the cover and also hoping the cover stayed fit at the same time.


I think whether we go down the route of saying it is down to fatigue or saying it is a case of some players haven proven to be unreliable, it still boils down to both of us saying the same thing is needed going forward.

You’d have to assume that they’d all have had the same playing load as they’ve had this season regardless, which is very unlikely. Agree with the general point about their unreliable availability though.

We don’t want to ge going into next season with this exact same group of midfielders

[danperkins]

Gini was run into the ground last season.

Seems pretty apparent that it wasn’t Klopp’s wish to let him go either.

Either way, it’s still hard to imagine our midfield being such a walkthrough against Brentford, City and Brighton with him in the team.