Brendan Rodgers

[baitman]

I'd argue that in his time at Swansea, Allen was very much a ball winner. He just didn't get much of an opportunity to show this side of his game with us last season.

was allen winning the ball in a tackle, or just nipping in and winning an intercept?

If we look at Barcelona, the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and even Busquetts are not bulky ball winners. What they tend to do is harry and hassle until the opposition team kick the ball long to our defenders.

Then we have an Agger (Pique) type that brings it down and starts the next move.

In fact, even closer to home we have Wilshere, Ramsay and Rosicky who do the same thing. Winning the ball is not about a meaty tackle, but winning it by forcing the opposition to kick it long.

yep.
the pressing game means you dont need to do the crunching tackles to win the ball, but it needs to be the whole team pressing, not just a couple of nominated runners, like henderson or allen.
our forwards do their bit, chasing back. reminds me a little of watching Ian Rush

when the team instruction is to press then after a while the work ethic and concentration drifts and we revert to falling behind the ball. so we neither do one thing nor the other. while we sit back we are far too lightweight and too easily played through by opponents.

[BigChief]

Agreed baitman. Thus we need 'braver' players and this drifting concentration is not going unnoticed by Rodgers. He's biding his time.

[Sarb]

Agreed baitman. Thus we need 'braver' players and this drifting concentration is not going unnoticed by Rodgers. He's biding his time.

If you take bias out of it etc, who do you think out of our midfielders is upto consistently playing the high up pressing game? I've spoken to a few supporters and they think we need 3 new midfielders

[baitman]

If you take bias out of it etc, who do you think out of our midfielders is upto consistently playing the high up pressing game? I've spoken to a few supporters and they think we need 3 new midfielders

three new midfielders and two wing backs.
our current lads are all drifting in and out of games. a few decent moments or the odd good game seems to save them from being criticised, but this piecemeal contribution is having a detrimental effect on the team.

[BigChief]

If you take bias out of it etc, who do you think out of our midfielders is upto consistently playing the high up pressing game? I've spoken to a few supporters and they think we need 3 new midfielders

I'd be one of those supporters you've spoken to.

Seriously though, Allen and a revitalised Lucas are fine alongside Henderson. But if Lucas can't manage it then we need another Cabaye type player. These type of players are relatively well concealed in terms of what they offer the team isn't always obvious. Therefore, they can be found reasonably cheaply.

Henderson would need to improve his ball retention/passing. Maybe we need two Allen type players. All of this isn't boding too well for retaining Gerrard in anything other than a bit part role (ala Lampard).

[the rev leeroy brown]

high pressing is all fair and well but it still unequivocally needs a tackler in with that when a crucnh tackle or last gasp lunge is needed and so far its plainly obvious none of our players have that. henderson has the heart of dirk kyut with his running and energy, allen has the pressing fine but the tackling falls short, gerrard has all the attributes but sadly not at the highest of levels and lucas is sadly lacking in all the areas although not as low as some might suggest.

[The_weatherman]

I was thinking about our start to the season, I think we are in for a shock over the next few games. I think ChesterDave has a signature comparing our games now the comparative games from last season and we are only 4 points better off really. I think our good start is mainly due to it being an easy start.

I'm worried that after about six games or so we'll be outside the top five.

[Chris]

I was thinking about our start to the season, I think we are in for a shock over the next few games. I think ChesterDave has a signature comparing our games now the comparative games from last season and we are only 4 points better off really. I think our good start is mainly due to it being an easy start.

I'm worried that after about six games or so we'll be outside the top five.

Whats easy though? Arsenal 1 Villa 3. Spurs 0 West Ham 3. Cardiff 3 City 2. Villa 3 City 2. Man Utd 1 West Brom 2. Newcastle 2 Chelsea 0.

[ronanm]

I was thinking about our start to the season, I think we are in for a shock over the next few games. I think ChesterDave has a signature comparing our games now the comparative games from last season and we are only 4 points better off really. I think our good start is mainly due to it being an easy start.

I'm worried that after about six games or so we'll be outside the top five.

Wait until Jan 1st. We'll have a much better idea as to how well the manager and team are doing then.

[Sarb]

We've not had any easier start than Arsenal or Spurs and even City I'd say. Chelsea have had Utd and Spurs away so could be classed as the toughest.

Gets on my goat when people talk about our so-called easy start and spunk themselves silly over Arsenal who've probably had a fixture list no more difficult than ours so far.

[BigChief]

This time last season we dropped points against WBA and manure. Both tough games even this season, but ones where we've picked up maximum points this time round. Every team will face tough opposition, not just us.

In the next 6 don't we have Fulham and Hull twice? Hardly our toughest run.

[Lecter]

I'd argue that in his time at Swansea, Allen was very much a ball winner. He just didn't get much of an opportunity to show this side of his game with us last season.

I'd argue that Leon Britton did most of the possession winning for Swansea

[Sarb]

I'd argue that Leon Britton did most of the possession winning for Swansea

Never saw enough of Swansea to be honest. But Leon Britton doesn't strike me as a giant/big unit either. Probably adds weight to the argument that we don't have the right personnel to play the pressing game?

[Lecter]

If we look at Barcelona, the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and even Busquetts are not bulky ball winners. What they tend to do is harry and hassle until the opposition team kick the ball long to our defenders.

Then we have an Agger (Pique) type that brings it down and starts the next move.

In fact, even closer to home we have Wilshere, Ramsay and Rosicky who do the same thing. Winning the ball is not about a meaty tackle, but winning it by forcing the opposition to kick it long.

I never said it was about meaty challenges but again I just dont see it from Allen

Hes defensively very naive, hes physically weak and is easily knocked off the ball, he lacks aggression

You dont have to be 7ft, 18st killing machines to be a holding player but you have to have a bit of aggression and nous to play there and Allen to me lacks all those qualities

[Lecter]

Never saw enough of Swansea to be honest. But Leon Britton doesn't strike me as a giant/big unit either. Probably adds weight to the fact that we don't have the right personnel to play the pressing game?

My argument has never been about big units

That doesnt make you a good holding player or ball winner

There are lots of things that matter but few of them are in Allens locker

Didnt Brendan himself say that Allen was better further forward sometime last season?

Sure I remember him saying he wasnt suited to the holding role and that his qualities were suited further up the pitch