Brendan Rodgers

[ChrisDR1968]

If you look at this thread, very few people wanted him gone.

However, he's shown a willingness to change recently, and now has to show that consistency long term, to marry points and performances. He's playing a system that gets his best players on the pitch in their best positions, and dominated Man Utd (despite the loss) and Arsenal.

There's still a long way to go this season, and things can change very quickly. There are real shoots of recovery, which were much needed given we've got the Capital One Cup in January, the Europa League in February, and on paper, a comfortable league run leading up to the COC Semi Finals. Tell you what, he has got massive cojones for the game against Man Utd. Dropping Mignolet and playing a 3-4-2-1 from then onwards seemed bat**** crazy/stroke of genius. Like DannyMan2006 said, it was like Rodgers knew Basel was unacceptable, and made radical changes. It's encouraging.

That was the start of the current upturn... but he still dropped/rested Lucas for that game which meant our dodgy centre backs were left exposed against United's good forward players

How he thought that was a good idea at a stadium we traditionally do poorly in is anyone's guess

[RedReet]

I don't know about anyone else but I still don't really entirely trust Rodgers as Liverpool's manager.

When he gets it right it's great and very entertaining to watch (like last night) but I've still got a suspicion that the side he put out last night was one he was forced into by circumstances.

His first choice team (going by what he's done so far this season) would include Johnson (crap at tracking back), Allen (Mr Neutral and ineffective himself), Lovren (had he not made so many errors and taken himself out of the team) and Gerrard (who forces the entire team to change the way they play)

His extreme reluctance (until recently) to play Markovic and Can are other reasons to be a bit cautious in proclaiming Brendon the bold and expansive manager he was in the second half of last season.

It's still a wait and see situation for me at this moment in time

God, he can't win, can he?

When key players are injured and we're losing, he can't use that as an excuse as it's his fault that the replacements aren't good enough. When players are injured and we're winning, it's a fluke because he's forced into those changes.


Let's look at the changes:

He's played 3 at the back- The same system he used to good effect last year with a fully fit squad. Bold decision to switch to it for the United match and even bolder to stick with it after the result.

Playing Can at CB- Perhaps forced, but the fact he also played Johnson there indicated his idea was to have a player comfortable on the ball

Sterling as CF- Not forced upon him, had other options but went for this and it's paying off. His decision to move him from the wing to the No.10 position last year was unexpected and proved a master-stroke too.

Playing Lallana and Coutinho in the same team- Not forced upon him at all, lots were calling for Coutinho's head but Rodgers explained what his template was before United, he wanted more movement and better technique up front. Surely credit where credit is due.


And you mention Markovic and Can, again he can't win. Both looked poor earlier in the season and he was heavily criticised for his signings. Now they are finding some form (some would argue after having been managed well), he's at fault again because he should have played them more.




What was it Rodgers said when he joined about the 4 types of Liverpool fan...

[RedReet]

If you look at this thread, very few people wanted him gone.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=86825

But a month later there was a thread with plenty discussing his replacements.

[Phoenix07]

But a month later there was a thread with plenty discussing his replacements.

Potential replacements IF Rodgers is sacked.

[RedReet]

Well I didn't read it, so I'll take your word.

[ChrisDR1968]

God, he can't win, can he?

What was it Rodgers said when he joined about the 4 types of Liverpool fan...

Let me guess:

1. Those who blindly support the team even if it is playing crap.
2. The fans who need convincing the manager and team are on the right track before getting behind them.
2. Those who are fair weather supporters who lose interest and become apathetic if the team is struggling.
4. The fans who aggressively attack the manager and the players when things are not going well.

Am I close?

[Muddled]

I don't know about anyone else but I still don't really entirely trust Rodgers as Liverpool's manager.

When he gets it right it's great and very entertaining to watch (like last night) but I've still got a suspicion that the side he put out last night was one he was forced into by circumstances.

His first choice team (going by what he's done so far this season) would include Johnson (crap at tracking back), Allen (Mr Neutral and ineffective himself), Lovren (had he not made so many errors and taken himself out of the team) and Gerrard (who forces the entire team to change the way they play)

His extreme reluctance (until recently) to play Markovic and Can are other reasons to be a bit cautious in proclaiming Brendon the bold and expansive manager he was in the second half of last season.

It's still a wait and see situation for me at this moment in time

I think you're doing Rodgers a mis-service there.

When Rodgers has aluded to the lack of coaching time, I believe he has been referring to the implementation of this current set-up. It's not like a light switch where he stops one system and starts the next; Rodgers will have tried to continue the system from last year. When that failed he will have started to build our current system with a rough date in mind. That transition period will have been filled with a back-to-basics system using players he trusted from last season.

When everybody was questioning him having favourites and not playing 'committee signed players', it wasn't Rodgers being stubborn - he was tinkering behind the scenes - he was entrusting players who knew his tactics.

You think Rodgers has stumbled on a winning formula, by accident or fortune, I believe this has been Rodgers at his best.

[RedReet]

Let me guess:

1. Those who blindly support the team even if it is playing crap.
2. The fans who need convincing the manager and team are on the right track before getting behind them.
2. Those who are fair weather supporters who lose interest and become apathetic if the team is struggling.
4. The fans who aggressively attack the manager and the players when things are not going well.

Am I close?

Can't remember actually.

There was definitely a group that he accepts he'll never please.

[Norbs]

If you look at this thread, everybody few people wanted him gone.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=86825

All concerns were based on his inability to learn from mistakes, and playing the same players without changing them. There was also the Chelsea game, where he dropped those who played well at the Bernabeu against Real Madrid. His interviews were abysmal, and showed similar parallels to his ill-fated spell at Reading (according to a number of their fans).
He's very lucky that no top class manager is available, unlike when the fanbase turned on Hodgson, when Dalglish and Benitez were unemployed and on Merseyside. I think calls for his dismissal would've been increasingly more across the board.

However, he's shown a willingness to change recently, and now has to show that consistency long term, to marry points and performances. He's playing a system that gets his best players on the pitch in their best positions, and dominated Man Utd (despite the loss) and Arsenal.

His next challenge is handling transfers. We all know there's something not quite right with the transfer committee, and I'm sure John Henry and Tom Werner will be reviewing their options on that front (please get on your knees and beg for Cruyff). The purchase of Mario Balotelli from a discussion of a loan deal to a £16million transfer for a player who no one would've said fits our style (even though we were excited by his arrival) is alarming. Pearce's Echo piece on Rodgers' preferred targets was a clear leak by our manager. In my view, we need a stronger committee with only Fallows and Rodgers from the current crop, aligned with new blood i.e. Cruyff. I'm stunned that the committee follows the Graham model, whereby if the stats for a player aren't satisfactory, then they say no. Stats can only tell half a story.

There's still a long way to go this season, and things can change very quickly. There are real shoots of recovery, which were much needed given we've got the Capital One Cup in January, the Europa League in February, and on paper, a comfortable league run leading up to the COC Semi Finals. Tell you what, he has got massive cojones for the game against Man Utd. Dropping Mignolet and playing a 3-4-2-1 from then onwards seemed bat**** crazy/stroke of genius. Like DannyMan2006 said, it was like Rodgers knew Basel was unacceptable, and made radical changes. It's encouraging.

To be fair, the ones that wanted him gone are all a bunch of ******s tick...tock

[ChrisDR1968]

Can't remember actually.

There was definitely a group that he accepts he'll never please.

Just looked it up:

He told the club’s official website, “There are three types of supporters at every club. No 1 are those who love their club and will love their manager whoever it is because Liverpool is their life and their passion.

“The second group are supporters who will accept you but to earn their real respect you will have to be successful, and that’s fine.

“The third group are the critics and you never change them ever. Ever. If you win 4-0 it should have been five, if you win the league you should have won three. But I will never worry about that group, because you can never affect them.

Can't really argue with him there!

[Roboklopp]

Where did Casemore's mate Sarb sit on this scale?

[marcus50bucks]

God, he can't win, can he?

When key players are injured and we're losing, he can't use that as an excuse as it's his fault that the replacements aren't good enough. When players are injured and we're winning, it's a fluke because he's forced into those changes.


Let's look at the changes:

He's played 3 at the back- The same system he used to good effect last year with a fully fit squad. Bold decision to switch to it for the United match and even bolder to stick with it after the result.

Playing Can at CB- Perhaps forced, but the fact he also played Johnson there indicated his idea was to have a player comfortable on the ball

Sterling as CF- Not forced upon him, had other options but went for this and it's paying off. His decision to move him from the wing to the No.10 position last year was unexpected and proved a master-stroke too.

Playing Lallana and Coutinho in the same team- Not forced upon him at all, lots were calling for Coutinho's head but Rodgers explained what his template was before United, he wanted more movement and better technique up front. Surely credit where credit is due.


And you mention Markovic and Can, again he can't win. Both looked poor earlier in the season and he was heavily criticised for his signings. Now they are finding some form (some would argue after having been managed well), he's at fault again because he should have played them more.




What was it Rodgers said when he joined about the 4 types of Liverpool fan...

I do see where ChrisDR1968 is coming from though. I think some of the decisions Rodgers has made have been forced upon him. Lets not kid ourselves into thinking if the likes of Lovren, Johnson etc were fit they wouldn't be in the team because they would and recent months show this despite them under performing. I also don't think Gerrard should walk back in the team particularly after an impressive performance by us last night. However, I'd be very surprised if he's not in the starting line-up against Leicester. Overall I'm happy that we seem to be turning a corner but I want to see signs that Rodgers is able to address our issues at the back which he hasn't been able to do thus far.

[cream]

Brendan Rodgers

[RedReet]

I do see where ChrisDR1968 is coming from though. I think some of the decisions Rodgers has made have been forced upon him. Lets not kid ourselves into thinking if the likes of Lovren, Johnson etc were fit they wouldn't be in the team because they would and recent months show this despite them under performing. I also don't think Gerrard should walk back in the team particularly after an impressive performance by us last night. However, I'd be very surprised if he's not in the starting line-up against Leicester. Overall I'm happy that we seem to be turning a corner but I want to see signs that Rodgers is able to address our issues at the back which he hasn't been able to do thus far.

Well this is where I disagree strongly. You are suggesting that our recent change in fortune is down to the personnel not playing, whereas I think it's clearly down to the change in formation and style (which Rodgers explained even before recent injuries kicked in) and largely down to our front 3. Rodgers has to take the credit for that IMO. How many managers would have looked at 3 top quality No. 10's in the squad and decided the best way forward was to play neither of them there?


ChrisDR's argument is also assuming that had these particular 'favourite' players played, we wouldn't have had similar results, which is a flawed argument.

A) we have no way of proving this

B) The little evidence we do have suggests that since the change of formation our performance still improved even with them in the side, even if we didn't get the results that we deserved.

Re. Gerrard: I don't think he should come straight back into the side, but IIRC we had an identical situation last year. After Gerrard's disastrous debut as a holding player, we put in a wonderful performance without him in teh side and nobody expected us to see him play there again. Obviously Rodgers had his own views and they both went on to prove us all wrong. Likewise with Suarez, I remember it raised a few eyebrows when he decided to play him centrally and Sturridge out wide, but again we know how that turned out.

Basically since Rodgers has been here he has made some massive calls that a lot of us disagreed with, some he may have fluked, some may be genius, who knows? Ether way, I think he's done enough to earn the benefit of the doubt on some occasions, even if I don't think this is one of those occasions as quite clearly our recent improvement is by design, not accident IMO.

[Kenneth]

Let's wait unti we've beaten someone really decent and performed well rather than scrape a win against **** and bashed Swansea. Hopefully we can pull out a run of performances but so far the mini revival has been pretty mini.