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    Analysis: The Europa League and the Thursday Night Effect

    It's a received wisdom that teams that have to play midweek European games are at a disadvantage when it comes to league games the following weekend, but just how much of an effect does continental participation have on performance?

    “The Europa League takes an even bigger toll [than the Champions League] in my opinion, that's the problem,” said Harry Redknapp in April 2011. “That Thursday night one, every week, and playing Sundays every week.”

    It’s hard not to see his point; virtually all teams involved in the Europa League get two days rest between their European match and following domestic league fixture. Champions League teams may get up to four or even five days.

    But do these supposed disadvantages hold true in reality? To test this received wisdom, Prozone analysts have looked at how teams playing on Thursday nights in the UEFA Cup and Europa League have performed relative to expectations on the following Sunday.

    We set expectations based on historical betting data from football-data.co.uk. Bookmakers’ odds add up to more than 100%, but we can normalise these odds to give us the probability of a home win, away win and draw.

    From these probabilities we can estimate expected points for both teams. As an example, we will use a game where Team A has a 60% chance of winning, Team B a 10% chance of victory and a draw 30% chance. Therefore, the expected points for Team A is (3 x 0.6) + 0.3 = 2.1 points, and Team B (3 x 0.1) + 0.3 = 0.6 points. From this calculation we can state that, statistically speaking, if the same match was played hundreds of times, Team A’s average points from these games would be 2.1 and Team B’s 0.6.

    Over time, we would expect teams to score as many points as would be expected. Any difference between actual points and expected points is known as residual points.

    We can now compare actual and expected points on Sundays for teams who played on Thursdays in Europe. One of three outcomes is possible:

    1. If there was no effect of playing on Thursday and Sunday, actual points would be roughly equal to expected points, giving us a residual of zero.

    2. If there was a negative effect of playing Thursday and Sunday, we would expect a negative residual: teams collecting fewer points than expected.

    3. If there was a positive effect of playing Thursday and Sunday, we would expect a positive residual: teams collecting more points than expected.

    It turns out that the second outcome holds true: teams consistently drop points when playing on Sundays after Thursday European matches.



    In 215 league games after Thursday European matches since 2001, teams have scored over 38 points fewer than would be expected. The effect is particularly pronounced after European away matches, where teams have scored 32 points below expectation.

    Another way of looking at this is that for approximately every three Thursday European away matches, teams drop one point on the following weekend. After home games, it’s only one point dropped every 18 weekends. This makes basic sense, as travel is likely to have a detrimental effect on performance.

    For the purposes of the study, Sunday matches between teams that both played on the preceding Thursday have been excluded.

    There is some variation by team, too. Curiously, Redknapp’s former team Tottenham have actually scored more points after European games since 2001, but it seems unlikely that this will hold over time.



    Two teams in this year’s competition – Liverpool and Newcastle United – have had unfavourable histories with the competition in terms of the effect on league form. Nine of the 12 teams dropped more points after away matches in Europe than after home games.

    A few points to consider:

    These results support evidence on The Power of Goals blog and a study led by Raymond Verheijen.

    The teams analysed did not systematically drop points in league matches not following Thursday European matches.

    Betting odds are a good way to set expectations for results, but can be influenced by the volume of bets placed.

    The odds may not reflect team selection. For example, Middlesbrough and Fulham may have selected weaker teams in a bid to sustain their European runs, leading to a negative points residual.

    We’ve already seen Newcastle and Liverpool field supposedly weaker teams away from home in the first round of group matches this season. As teams qualifying for Europe’s second-tier competition look to push for Champions League places through league results, this may be a sign of things to come.
    I could not dig, I dared not rob:
    Therefore I lied to please the mob.
    Now all my lies are proved untrue
    And I must face the men I slew.
    What tale shall serve me here among
    Mine angry and defrauded young?

    Comment


      i'm certain we are contractually obliged to appear in those other countries on certain dates anyway. the problem here is almost certainly that we can't get away for matches in july because everything's already booked and there have been documents signed.
      dave of mutilation

      Comment


        Its not necessarily giving us more exposure internationally anyway.

        It puts a lot more of our matches in the Sunday slot. For countries on opposite timezones (such as Oz) this means staying up until 3 or 4 in the morning on a work day. This is just not practical on a regular basis.

        So the viewers we gain from the Europa as to be balanced against the viewers we lose due to timezone collision.

        I'll personally be very happy to be back to being able to watch our matches on a regular basis.

        Comment


          Well said, MrM.
          .
          Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



          May the Lord bless this post.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Shackanory View Post
            "Hey, Liverpool, we know you won't qualify for the Europa League through league position, but if England finish third in the Fair Play League, do you wanna play in the Europa League next season?"

            "**** NO, LET'S GO PLAY SOME POINTLESS FRIENDLIES IN AUSTRALIA AND THAILAND INSTEAD!"
            These "pointless" friendlies will yield far more cash than winning the EL next season.

            Comment


              I would prefer to not go into the Europa and those players who would beneift playing the Europa games, Which would much prefer them loaned out and get some proper expereince, rather than playing on some ****ty pitch in unprounacakakistan with a team cobbled together.

              I honestly think with a couple of decent signings we should really be pushing top 4 next season and we can do without the distraction. It will cost us points there is no doubt and even if its just a few, We will neeed them!!
              _____________________________________

              Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

              Think we have the answer..Slot!!

              Comment


                Originally posted by Shackanory View Post
                "Hey, Liverpool, we know you won't qualify for the Europa League through league position, but if England finish third in the Fair Play League, do you wanna play in the Europa League next season?"

                "**** NO, LET'S GO PLAY SOME POINTLESS FRIENDLIES IN AUSTRALIA AND THAILAND INSTEAD!"
                As someone who spends a lot of time in Thailand I can assure you that these games are not at all considered to be pointless. I imagine the same is true for fans in Australia (and Indonesia too I'm sure). We have an absolutely gigantic fan base in Thailand and this visit gives the dedicated fans here a very rare chance to see Liverpool in the flesh.

                I actually agree with the principle of trying to get into Europe on merit rather than through the daft fair play idea

                I've been going to games since 1965 and in those days our global empire expanded about as far as Llandudno. The fact that we have such a huge fan base around the world and, while giving pleasure to countless fans thousands of miles away, playing in these countries can only reinforce our global standing - a position the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Everton can only dream of. Playing the likes of a second-rate team from Estonia in a third-rate competition in early July seems like madness to me.

                We're only a couple of decent buys from having a pretty good side, so let's hope for a good summer and more steady improvement next season with hopefully European qualification on footballing merit

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
                  Well said, MrM.
                  He's really starting to put in that extra effort.
                  * The above is posted in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

                  Comment


                    So how many games are there in the Europa? Qualifiers -> 2 First round -> 2 Group stage -> 6 First knockout round 2.

                    I'm only assuming we reach the first knockout round but that means 12 games by my calculation, more if start earlier. So if we play one league game straight after a Europa game it means 12 league games over the season and 36 points. Lets say we would be 7 points (based on nothing mind) better if we'd scrap Europe? Would you take it? I know I would.
                    * The above is posted in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by The_weatherman View Post
                      He's really starting to put in that extra effort.


                      Way past time. Still, there's more rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents, etc.
                      .
                      Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                      May the Lord bless this post.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by MrMichael View Post
                        I disagree. The Uefa cup / Europa league has been messed around with and devalued so much now to the point of it simply being an annoyance to many participants in it. The meaning and nature of "European football" has changed an awful lot. Sure it is a chance to give some more players some experience of European competition, but it also royally messes up many clubs' league seasons. Travelling to Maldova, Israel or wherever for games on Thursday nights then back to play in the league on a Sunday against a team that has had all week to prepare requires at the very least a strong, deep squad, the sort of which we don't really have right now.

                        While Liverpool football club should always aspire to be playing in Europe, we should also be aspiring to win things and to appear in the top competition; if having one year out of the Europa gives us a much better chance of fulfilling either or both of those goals then I think it is worth it. Now sure, if we qualified through a strong result in a competition, and didn't have to play endless qualifying matches that screw up our pre-season, then that's one thing. But the fair-play nonsense is just that, nonsense, and I can totally see the argument that actually we would be better off in the short term and the long term giving it a miss for one year. If it meant the difference between getting and not getting 4th next season I can't see one single fan objecting.

                        The Premiership is viewed by far more people, in far more countries, than random Europa games against unpronouncable teams from Albania. In terms of "building our brand", a higher league position and potentially getting into the CL will do FAR more for that than the Europa ever would.
                        Good Post

                        Participating in the Europa league is not as simple as buying plane tickets and hotel rooms for the youth team and sending them there is it. Watching videos of opponents, analyzing their weakness, preparing the team, tactics, all of them take time.

                        Anyway this time the manager ansd the coaches might have decided that it is not worth the hassle at this stage of development of the squad. They may want to just focus on the League so that they can get back into the CL which will provide us with the base for evolving further.

                        I personally don't agree with not participating in the Europa League but I think this is a good calculated move. I think this can pay off in the long term.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Redspin View Post
                          As someone who spends a lot of time in Thailand
                          Do you run a business there?
                          Was muß, das muß.

                          Comment


                            Liverpool FC manager Brendan Rodgers says he'll have final say on transfers

                            Read more: Liverpool Echo http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...#ixzz2S98aq94w

                            BRENDAN RODGERS insists he will have the final word on all transfers at Liverpool FC this summer.

                            The Reds boss has dismissed suggestions that he’s only part of a recruitment team who will make decisions by committee.

                            In the absence of a director of football, Dave Fallows (head of recruitment), Barry Hunter (chief scout) and Michael Edwards (head of analysis) are also key figures when it comes to assessing targets for owners Fenway Sports Group.

                            But Rodgers says the work of that trio makes his life easier and the manager retains full control over any potential signings as he looks to strengthen his squad.

                            “There is absolutely no way a player will come in here if I don’t want him,” Rodgers said.

                            “I will always be the first person it comes to. That’s not being arrogant, that’s how we operate here and how it works in this country.

                            “Abroad it works differently where you have a coach and the club will bring in the players. The coach then works with the players he’s given.

                            A lot has been made of it but the fact is the process that happens here is no different to what happens at other English clubs.

                            “We have a number of people, scouting staff and analysts, who will look for targets who fit the profile of the players that we want.

                            “Then I will sit down with those guys, look at those targets and make a shortlist from that.

                            “All that work that goes on is of great help to me. We identify players, gather all the information we possibly can and then if they’re right for what we need it comes down to whether they are affordable and available.

                            “I know the club will go and do the best it can to get the players we want. But it’s very clear that anyone we sign will be because I want him here.”
                            http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-33270443/

                            I think a few people need to sit in a quiet room and read this several times and let it sink it, then they may think twice before spouting the "but I don't think the Manager wanted him, he's not his signing" bollocks when discussing a less than stellar signing.

                            Comment


                              Subtext:

                              Don't try to stop me blaming the manager for a less than stellar signing.
                              .
                              Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                              May the Lord bless this post.

                              Comment


                                It's been crystal clear from his very first press conference that Rodgers would have the final say on all transfers given the way he interrupted Ayre to categorically state that the continental structure FSG had envisaged would not be put in place, but some people seem slightly forgetful and are prone to believe daft rumours about the owners saddling the manager with players he doesn't want.

                                It's always been my belief that the Manager has the final say - given by that initial press conference and subsequent interviews, and will be until he says something to the contrary, so there is no subtext here to provide justification for 'blaming' the Manager - it's always been there. This latest quote is merely a more recent affirmation of the policy that has been in place since he was appointed, and it's easier to refer to than saying: "check out the initial press conference and subsequent interviews for the actual transfer policy chain of command".

                                Comment

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