BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2012

[Kenneth]

Yeah, but cycling is ****.

(Not sure what smiley to use)

[Daniel 7]

Yeah Neil, but he won a gold medal at Wimbledon too. And reached the final at Wimbledon, and Australia, and won a silver medal in the mixed doubles.

He won the US Open in an era where any one of the other members of the top 4 could credibly be titled with "Best Player Ever" - its not just what he won, its who he has beaten to get there. All the other three won their first Grand Slam events against opponents who were massively inferior opponents, he had to beat one of the greats to get his first title. Its the standards he has had to reach that marks it as such an achievement.

Wiggins's win was massive too. Whoever wins, somebody hugely deserving will miss out.

[Shaggy]

Yeah Neil, but he won a gold medal at Wimbledon too. And reached the final at Wimbledon, and Australia, and won a silver medal in the mixed doubles.

He won the US Open in an era where any one of the other members of the top 4 could credibly be titled with "Best Player Ever" - its not just what he won, its who he has beaten to get there. All the other three won their first Grand Slam even against opponents who were massively inferior opponents, he had to beat one of the greats to get his first title. Its the standards he has had to reach that marks it as such an achievement.

Wiggins's win was massive too. Whoever wins, somebody hugely deserving will miss out.

Yep, more achievements in the year than Wiggins, and you have to factor the incredible standard of opposition (all-time greats) he conquered for his successes.

[Neil Young]

But that's wrong. Wiggins won three of the most prestigious stage races as well as the Tour de France and Olympic gold.

No rider - not just no British rider - has ever won Paris-Nice and the Criterium du Dauphiné and the Tour of Romandie in a single season.

No rider - not just no British rider - has ever won Paris-Nice and the Criterium du Dauphiné and the Tour de France in a single season.

No rider has ever won the Tour de France and Olympic gold in a single season.

No British rider has ever been world number one.

No British rider has ever won the Vélo d'Or.

I don't see how losing a load of finals and semi-finals compares.

Of course Djokovic and Federer and Nadal are all-time greats of tennis but all that really proves for definite is that Murray is an excellent tennis player to be competing with them and occasionally beating them.

It seems to me that Wiggins' season is underrated because people don't know much about cycling and don't understand how it works. That's ok of course - it's not a criticism - but it does indicate the possibility of inadvertent bias.

[Shaggy]

For someone not arsed about SPOTY, you don't half have a lot to say about it



I will be dialling in for Murray

[Buzzo]

For someone not arsed about SPOTY, you don't half have a lot to say about it



I will be dialling in for Murray

The above message from Neil, clearly the ramblings of a deranged, biased, lycra clad maniac

Down playing the achievement of winning the US open no less I admire Wiggo, obviously - who doesn't/

But I'll be voting Murray also

[Daniel 7]

I can't vote for a man who has Weller as his style icon

[Buzzo]

I can't vote for a man who has Weller as his style icon

Exactly.

[Shaggy]

I can't vote for a man who has Weller as his style icon

It's a bit much isn't it.

[Neil Young]

For someone not arsed about SPOTY, you don't half have a lot to say about it

I'd like Wiggins to win on the grounds he's done better (and had more impact on the public).

You can't compare a cyclist directly with a tennis player obviously, so you have to assess their achievements within their own sport - how well they've done this season compared to how well others have done this season and how well other Britons have done in previous seasons. On both grounds Wiggins comes out ahead.

The only thing you can say about Murray is that he's got three all-time greats up against him. That's a good reason for not being dominant in his sport, which, unlike Wiggins, he isn't. It's not like he's even come close to being world number one and it's plain that the only reason he's now as high as three is because Nadal has been injured.

And obviously Paul Weller is a massive tosser and that would normally count against Wiggins except that Murray's style icon appears to be Jeannette Winterson.

Anyway you lot clearly don't have a rational basis for your judgments. That's fine, as long as we're clear there's no way Murray's achievements this season are the equal of Wiggins'.

That's all I have to say on the matter.*






* This may not be true.

[Daniel 7]

I just like Andrew Murray more.

[Daniel 7]

And he is really good. He makes me go wow when I see him playing to the best of his ability. I appreciate Wiggins and he is a huge talent, but I have never been blown away by it. It just doesn't have that impact on me.

To be perfectly honest

[Neil Young]

I just like Andrew Murray more.

Now that's just weird. He's got all the charisma of a battery-farmed haggis.

[Neil Young]

Andy Murray celebrates his US Open victory.

[Neil Young]

And he is really good. He makes me go wow when I see him playing to the best of his ability. I appreciate Wiggins and he is a huge talent, but I have never been blown away by it. It just doesn't have that impact on me.

To be perfectly honest

Sure. As I said I think he's underrated because people don't get cycling, what it takes to win and what it all means in the history of the sport. But his achievements are incomparable within British road cycling. He's the best in the world FFS.