Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Craig_H]

I can't buy into that. I can't operate blind faith when its obvious it isn't working.

What's obvious though? That a kid is taking time to settle and adjust? Well stone the crows, who would've thunk it??!

When we've bought young players in the past, strikers especially, they were afforded time to adjust and settle. N'Gog never pulled up trees, but was always cut some slack. Why? Cos he was young. And cheap. Carroll's young, but he was expensive, so you can spot the difference, N'Gog got the benefit of the doubt, Carroll doesnt.

He clearly has the raw materials, has done better than Crouch did in his first 20 games, is going to get better and for the record, has actually played pretty well during a fair portion of his games.

I dont see everything to do with his time with us as negative, if i did, i too would write him off, but it hasnt been like that, it's been a mixed bag.

[Craig_H]

Yep. Not good enough.

Was N'Gog good enough? Nope, but he wasnt hounded like Carroll is. It's so obviously to do with the money.

And FWIW, i think Carroll will prove good enough, if some people can just offer a bit of patience and faith/support.

[Vermilion]

I can't buy into that. I can't operate blind faith when its obvious it isn't working.

Why not, your practicing blind faith anyway, faith in your opinion that AC will NEVER come good for lfc, you don't know that for sure, yet you'd get rid tommorrow, same thing.

[Kenneth]

He's 23 in a month. He is not a young player.

[Craig_H]

He's 23 in a month. He is not a young player.

Course he's a ****ing young player. What is he then? Old? The finished article? In his prime?

[Kenneth]

Was N'Gog good enough? Nope, but he wasnt hounded like Carroll is. It's so obviously to do with the money.

And FWIW, i think Carroll will prove good enough, if some people can just offer a bit of patience and faith/support.

Ngog was genuinely a young player, bought at 19 and eased into the treen as a squaddie. People understood this. Carroll was bought at 22 to be our star striker. The comparison doesn't hold.

[Craig_H]

Ngog was genuinely a young player, bought at 19 and eased into the treen as a squaddie. People understood this. Carroll was bought at 22 to be our star striker. The comparison doesn't hold.

Was he? What's that based on?

Oh yeah....the fee.

[Kenneth]

Course he's a ****ing young player. What is he then? Old? The finished article? In his prime?

He's neither old nor young. He's 23.

[Craig_H]

He's 22.

And 22 is young. So is 23.

[Daniel 7]

What's obvious though? That a kid is taking time to settle and adjust? Well stone the crows, who would've thunk it??!

When we've bought young players in the past, strikers especially, they were afforded time to adjust and settle. N'Gog never pulled up trees, but was always cut some slack. Why? Cos he was young. And cheap. Carroll's young, but he was expensive, so you can spot the difference, N'Gog got the benefit of the doubt, Carroll doesnt.

He clearly has the raw materials, has done better than Crouch did in his first 20 games, is going to get better and for the record, has actually played pretty well during a fair portion of his games.

I dont see everything to do with his time with us as negative, if i did, i too would write him off, but it hasnt been like that, it's been a mixed bag.

You seem to be more hung up on the monetary value of players than I am, but apparently I am making a judgement based on numbers? I'm not. I didn't think N'gog was good enough, same as I don't think Carroll is good enough just now.

I can't ignore the fact that he's shambolic every time he goes on a pitch just because I'm a Liverpool fan. I'd love him to be scoring 30 goals a season, but its not going to happen.

These raw materials - I just don't see them in evidence for Liverpool. I have been pointed towards games in his first half season in the PL - there have been plenty of players who have thrived coming up from the Championship because of the shock or surprise value. I don't have to list them, you know them already.

We signed him too early. He should have been given more time there.

[Daniel 7]

Was he? What's that based on?

Oh yeah....the fee.

He was bought on the same day as Torres was sold and was given the number 9 shirt. There was a big deal made of that by Liverpool as well.

Was it a coincidence we sold our first choice striker and bought the same position on the same day?

[Craig_H]

He showed the raw materials at NUFC and in brief spells for us (City last season).

Do you genuinely think he's just 'lost' those raw materials? How does that happen at his age? When a player gets old, and/or injuries take their toll, then fair enough. But he's 22, not 32. I dont see how you just 'lose it' like that and i dont think he has. I'm curious as to whether you think he has.

[Kenneth]

Was he? What's that based on?

Oh yeah....the fee.

Yes Craig, clearly the fee. We sold Torres and rushed through the purchase of Carroll to be a squaddie like ngog.

[Kenneth]

He's 22.

And 22 is young. So is 23.

22 and 11 months is not young for a modern footballer. Players are certainly not the finished article at thy age, but they are not under-developed youth players either.

[Daniel 7]

He showed the raw materials at NUFC and in brief spells for us (City last season).

Do you genuinely think he's just 'lost' those raw materials? How does that happen at his age? When a player gets old, and/or injuries take their toll, then fair enough. But he's 22, not 32. I dont see how you just 'lose it' like that and i dont think he has. I'm curious as to whether you think he has.

Possibly. He certainly can't find them at the moment. You seem to think Torres has "lost it" in the Torres thread, but effectively he's in the same position at Chelsea isn't he? (Albeit a few years older with a prolific career already behind him)

We also don't know how much the injuries Carroll has suffered since he became a pro have taken their toll. Fowler's ****ed ankle at 23 affected his game for the rest of his career. It happens. Its always been very vague as to what was wrong with him, and his recovery has been rolled out as an excuse for his bad form for as long as he's been at Liverpool.