Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Exiled_red]

His total Premiership time on the pitch as a Liverpool player (this season and last) equates to ~13 games during which time he has scored 4 goals. Which equates to a goal every 3.25 games. Not a great record admittedly but a) this is derived from a very small run of games b) he is not playing regularly c) we aren't playing with a settled XI and d) he has been recovering from injury for at least some of that time.

I don't think that record is anywhere as near as bad as is being made out.

[Mattshark]

His play has been that bad.

His injury is no excuse for this season.

rotation is a part of football.

None of this explains his lack of technique nor his poor movement.

[Kenneth]

It's similar to the record of Voronin, who was also in and out of the team and was vilified for being ****. His all round game is meh. He is less productive as a target man playing knock downs than Crouch. His movement is ony average and he isn't quick. If he's going to succeed he needs to be a bully, a big ******* who ****s defenders and dominates. I worry that it just isn't in his makeup to play like that.

[muddym2002]

He had one good season in the championship and a decent start in the Premiership, there's been many a striker that has done the same (Marcus Stewart, Amr Zaki). He by no means is a proven striker.

It was a stupid rash decision to buy him for so much money.

Dont forget Michael Ricketts!!

[Mostar]

I am just not seeing what you are seeing in Carroll Birdman, I don't think he is really having any positive effect on our play and for most of his time on the pitch against Fulham he may as well not have been there.

He is weak in the air, he is positionally awful and he is not good on with the ball at his feet.

The problem is not the expectation, but Carroll's lack of ability and game intelligence.

I agree with that but even with those technical shortcomings he should be playing better than he does at the present time. I have seen enough of him over last 1 and half year before he joined us to know that.

The problem is that he lacks confidence and the pressure of being labeled as the most expensive English signing is really getting to him.

Personally I would take him back on a loan to NCFC so he can re-discover his form.

Being in familiar environment and system of play that suits his game would help him and would help us.

He would be able to get plenty of playing opportunities there, which would preserve his value somewhat and we can bring him back in summer if we choose to do so or alternatively we can sell him back to NCFC or any other club hopefully for some decent fee.

The loan deal clearly hinges on us being able to attract a good striker in January but if we achieve that I would definitely look seriously at that course of action for Andy.

[cronemeister]

The excuses and attempts to rationalise Carroll's ****ness are getting beyond a joke now. Andy's been here 10 months and here are the excuses in order :

Needs match fitness
Was signed for 5 years not 5 months. Needs time.
We need to change our style of play to suit him
He needs ammunition
Hasn't gelled with his team mates
Needs match fitness
Him and Downing are not on the same wave length yet
Needs a run of games
Still hasn't settled yet
The fans are not giving him enough support and that is why he's ****.

Have I missed any ?

He's homesick !

Not sure where he'd live like if he ever came back here cos Nolan's gone !

[The Birdman]

I am just not seeing what you are seeing in Carroll Birdman, I don't think he is really having any positive effect on our play and for most of his time on the pitch against Fulham he may as well not have been there.

He is weak in the air, he is positionally awful and he is not good on with the ball at his feet.

The problem is not the expectation, but Carroll's lack of ability and game intelligence.

I'll agree we play differently with Carroll in the team but isn't that the whole point? so that we have a plan A and plan B, the fact you think we aren't as effective with Carroll in the side will have as much to do with the team adapting to Carroll's strength's as him improving.

Have to disagree with that. Carrolls problems have nothing to do with fans expectations. Also, he was bought to score goals, which isn't happening.

He wasn't bought JUST to score goals though was he? and as Exiled_Red points out a goal every 3 games when in and out of the side isn't a terrible record for a club's 2nd striker which is what Carroll is, no.2 centre forward behind Suarez (in pecking order).

His total Premiership time on the pitch as a Liverpool player (this season and last) equates to ~13 games during which time he has scored 4 goals. Which equates to a goal every 3.25 games. Not a great record admittedly but a) this is derived from a very small run of games b) he is not playing regularly c) we aren't playing with a settled XI and d) he has been recovering from injury for at least some of that time.

I don't think that record is anywhere as near as bad as is being made out.

I completely agree. Carroll has 2 PL goals this season, Suarez 4 now I don't know the minutes played but I bet Suarez has played more than twice as many minutes as Carroll.

His play has been that bad.
Er no it hasn't.

His injury is no excuse for this season.
No, correct it shouldn't be an excuse, except if he was ordered total rest during the summer which would have had a knock on effect for his shape and condition when starting pre season - we don't know that either way

rotation is a part of football.
Yes but it wasn't part of Andy Carroll's football until this season was it?

None of this explains his lack of technique nor his poor movement.

A lack of technique and poor movement that has him 1 goal in 2 England games and a better than decent PL goalscoring record for a 22 year old lad, because that is what he is in footballing terms, a lad or a baby.

[Mattshark]

I'll agree we play differently with Carroll in the team but isn't that the whole point? so that we have a plan A and plan B, the fact you think we aren't as effective with Carroll in the side will have as much to do with the team adapting to Carroll's strength's as him improving.

Carroll is detrimental to our play though, he is not adaptable enough to offer a great deal and he is still technically poor. And I can't agree with Carroll winning flick ons etc, he has failed badly in that count.

He wasn't bought JUST to score goals though was he? and as Exiled_Red points out a goal every 3 games when in and out of the side isn't a terrible record for a club's 2nd striker which is what Carroll is, no.2 centre forward behind Suarez (in pecking order).

It isn't really a goal every three games though is it, it is still 4 in 19.

I completely agree. Carroll has 2 PL goals this season, Suarez 4 now I don't know the minutes played but I bet Suarez has played more than twice as many minutes as Carroll.

But Suarez adds significantly more to the team than Carroll does.

A lack of technique and poor movement that has him 1 goal in 2 England games and a better than decent PL goalscoring record for a 22 year old lad, because that is what he is in footballing terms, a lad or a baby.

1 in 3, quite literally, one goal on three games. He had half a good pl season with Newcastle, that is not enough to make such a judgement on.
He is young, yes. That doesn't stop also being high deficent and not good enough.

[Lecter]

Anyone who watched Newcastle first half of last season will know what Carroll is capable of

He battered teams at times and for me was one of the best headers of a ball I had seen for a long time

Now if Carroll is capable of playing at that level for Newcastle hes capable of playing at that level for LFC

Now for whatever reason it isnt happening for him now

Personally I dont think its a lack of ability or intelligence

[Lecter]

But Suarez adds significantly more to the team than Carroll does.


1 in 3, quite literally, one goal on three games. He had half a good pl season with Newcastle, that is not enough to make such a judgement on.
He is young, yes. That doesn't stop also being high deficent and not good enough.

The argument put forward by cream was he (Carroll) was bought to score goals which he hasnt done

So was Suarez and he hasnt scored enough goals

You cant criticise Carroll for not scoring enough then excuse Suarez for the same thing because of his all round play

IF Carrolls failing is not scoring enough goals then so is Suarez's who has clearly had many more minutes on the pitch than Carroll this season

For me of the two Suarez is more of a goalscorer (look at his record) and in those terms hes probably massively underperforming even more than Carroll

As for judging a player based on 6 months, those 6 months at least show what the lad is capable of reaching, playing at his best

[Mattshark]

The argument put forward by cream was he (Carroll) was bought to score goals which he hasnt done

So was Suarez and he hasnt scored enough goals

You cant criticise Carroll for not scoring enough then excuse Suarez for the same thing because of his all round play

IF Carrolls failing is not scoring enough goals then so is Suarez's who has clearly had many more minutes on the pitch than Carroll this season

For me of the two Suarez is more of a goalscorer (look at his record) and in those terms hes probably massively underperforming even more than Carroll

As for judging a player based on 6 months, those 6 months at least show what the lad is capable of reaching, playing at his best

I haven't judge him on goals though, neither of them, I judged Carroll and Suarez on their allround play. I pointed out the England record because it was wrong and secondly, because it is such a short period you really can't make any sort judgement on it.

That isn't always true though is it, it doesn't account for anomalies.

[Harv]

Our absolute piss poor delivery could have something to do with it....

We have a habit of either overhitting them, floating them or putting them on the defenders head. They're rarely drilled in with a bit of bend so he can attack.

He also seems to have been told to drift out wide. Which is baffling, because its not his game. He;s an old fashioned centre forward FFS. Stay in the box and batter the CB's.

He looks devoid of confidence too, not surprising with the pressure he's under. A few of his recent near misses going in would have done wonders.

[cream]

The argument put forward by cream was he (Carroll) was bought to score goals which he hasnt done

So was Suarez and he hasnt scored enough goals

You cant criticise Carroll for not scoring enough then excuse Suarez for the same thing because of his all round play

IF Carrolls failing is not scoring enough goals then so is Suarez's who has clearly had many more minutes on the pitch than Carroll this season

For me of the two Suarez is more of a goalscorer (look at his record) and in those terms hes probably massively underperforming even more than Carroll

As for judging a player based on 6 months, those 6 months at least show what the lad is capable of reaching, playing at his best

I agree Suarez doesn't score enough but he is the creative spark in the team. Take Suarez out of the team and we are worse, take Carroll out and we are better off, he brings nothing to the team.

[Lecter]

I haven't judge him on goals though, neither of them, I judged Carroll and Suarez on their allround play. I pointed out the England record because it was wrong and secondly, because it is such a short period you really can't make any sort judgement on it.

That isn't always true though is it, it doesn't account for anomalies.

Even taking anomalies into account the lad CAN play at that level

Why because hes ****ing done it

The thing is people are just using the 6 months as another reason to beat him with

He was excellent in the Championship the season before

He had most of the scouts in the country following him at youth level (even Rafa said they had been watching him closely since he was 16 or 17)

Now if the lad is so lacking in all departments why were so many scouts looking at him - was it just his hair they liked?

[Lecter]

I agree Suarez doesn't score enough but he is the creative spark in the team. Take Suarez out of the team and we are worse, take Carroll out and we are better off, he brings nothing to the team.

Fine but dont use goals to beat Carroll with - he wasnt bought to do that

I'd say bringing nothing is harsh

Hes been ok in a few games (not great but not terrible either)

Monday was a stepback for me but frankly I'm not convinced I'd have played him in that game anyway