Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Mostar]

1) it hasnt inflated all the prices we have paid, we got Coates pretty cheap and Adam & Enrique. Henderson and downing we paid about the going rate for especially when you consider Young & Jones deals that happened around the same time

2) In your opinion (which frankly counts for nothing). ALL managers make mistakes Fergie spunked £25 million each on Veron & Hargreaves amongst others and it hasnt significantly caused people to overly question him.

3) Torres asked for a transfer with a couple of days of the transfer window left to go. I'm surprised we managed one deal never mind completing 2 or 3

4) Last January was our last window before FFPR. I've yet to see ANYBODY confirm whether transfer profits from previous years could be carried over into an assessment period for FFPR, so maybe the money HAD to be spent and with 24-48 hours remaining we did the best that we could in that time

5) the most pointless point you make. Lots of things go into factoring a players price. Namely age, ability, position etc.. What you are suggesting is far too simplistic

6) New owners wanted to make the clear statement of intent and show to fans that they are here to win and that all the money from the sales will be re-invested in the new players.

Imagine the supporters' uproar and riots if they pocketed the money and didn't invest it right away especially with H&G wounds still being fresh.

[Vermilion]

Well i think he'll be just fine in the long run. just my op, but inside AC there is a very effective footballer ready to emerge.

I like him.

[Lecter]

It's staggering.

Its not really because far too many people have this attitude nowadays

[Lecter]

Lec, I know you're playing devil's advocate to some extent cos we've already been though it but FFS: the people here who have an agenda against Carroll are a lunatic fringe, most want him to suceed. However, just cos we won on Sunday doesnt mean we should boycott this thread. (In fact havent you argued we shouldnt blame him when we lose either?) People are entitled to ask questions about our players on a forum -it doesnt mean they wont support them on the pitch.

I've no problem with criticising the lad when its objective

However some people see fit to talk about Saturdays performance and the first thing they highlight was Carroll ("crap as usual"). Equally people who praise Bellamy by saying "hes twice the player that Carroll and Downing are" its pathetic

I dont see the need for either, its pointless and counter-productive and CLEARLY shows that those people taking such viewpoints are not in the slightest bit interested in supporting him on the pitch

They've clearly had their kangaroo court and decided his career is over at Anfield and anything that he or Kenny does in the meantime wont make a jot of difference

[Roboklopp]

People put a lot of their money into the club, wherther it be through matches, telly or merchandise. They also invest huge emotional involvement. Like it or not, they are gonna question things. Really don't see the problem, as long as it's sensible & constructive.

[Roboklopp]

I've no problem with criticising the lad when its objective

However some people see fit to talk about Saturdays performance and the first thing they highlight was Carroll ("crap as usual"). Equally people who praise Bellamy by saying "hes twice the player that Carroll and Downing are" its pathetic

I dont see the need for either, its pointless and counter-productive and CLEARLY shows that those people taking such viewpoints are not in the slightest bit interested in supporting him on the pitch

They've clearly had their kangaroo court and decided his career is over at Anfield and anything that he or Kenny does in the meantime wont make a jot of difference

Fair enough in this case & my post that immediately followed wasnt in realation to these types of comments, but again it seems that any reasonable discussion of the value of the player is shunned due to some completely unreasonable people. Everything is black & white in this thread & anyone who tries to discuss the grey is ignored/lumped in with the nay-sayers.

[Lecter]

People put a lot of their money into the club, wherther it be through matches, telly or merchandise. They also invest huge emotional involvement. Like it or not, they are gonna question things. Really don't see the problem, as long as it's sensible & constructive.

Thats the thing

Its rarely been sensible and constructive

Much of the comments on here are made through emotional decisions rather than anything else

The start of the season saw a group of posters slagging off Kenny for his transfer policy (without a ball being kicked)

As things have progressed this season and they've proven to look total ****wits they've moved on to their next target without acknowledging what complete pricks they looked earlier

Yet we still hear them come out with their words of wisdom and if on the very rare occasion it does so happen that they are right - they will come out with their "I told you so's"

There are players in the current side I dont like, but I dont choose to slag them off at every opportunity (despite the fact we paid big money for them)

I have a season ticket at LFC so I pay good money myself so should I therefore include a negative mention of said player in every post I make about every game/players etc...??

FFS some of the posters are so blind and stubborn they wont even acknowledge slight improvement if it goes against the grain of the main crux of their argument

Part of being a supporter is offerring support, I've seen precious little of that for Carroll to be honest

Hes been judged and sentenced by many people if reading this thread is anything to go by

[Roboklopp]

Thats the thing

Its rarely been sensible and constructive

Much of the comments on here are made through emotional decisions rather than anything else

The start of the season saw a group of posters slagging off Kenny for his transfer policy (without a ball being kicked)

As things have progressed this season and they've proven to look total ****wits they've moved on to their next target without acknowledging what complete pricks they looked earlier

Yet we still hear them come out with their words of wisdom and if on the very rare occasion it does so happen that they are right - they will come out with their "I told you so's"

There are players in the current side I dont like, but I dont choose to slag them off at every opportunity (despite the fact we paid big money for them)

I have a season ticket at LFC so I pay good money myself so should I therefore include a negative mention of said player in every post I make about every game/players etc...??

FFS some of the posters are so blind and stubborn they wont even acknowledge slight improvement if it goes against the grain of the main crux of their argument

Part of being a support is offerring support, I've seen precious little of that for Carroll to be honest

Hes been judged and sentenced by many people if reading this thread is anything to go by

Not by me he hasnt & Im sure Im not alone in this thread. However, I do have concerns.

Why waste so much time on the extremist clowns with no/scant response to the more constructive concerns?

[Craig_H]

People put a lot of their money into the club, wherther it be through matches, telly or merchandise. They also invest huge emotional involvement. Like it or not, they are gonna question things. Really don't see the problem, as long as it's sensible & constructive.

And therein lies the problem, writing off a player after less than 20 games, and/or blaming him for the transfer fee, is neither sensible nor constructive.

[Shaggy]

My mate is a fixed asset accountant and purely by chance has just emailed me lamenting Carroll and the money we wasted. Here's his take on whether the fee is relevant or not:

When companies submit accounts to HMRC they must put them in a specific format. It doesn't matter how you do your own accounts you have to adapt them to what they want. The only way the FFP regs could possibly work is if they too require them in a specific format.

For example with purchases of players (fixed assets) they will have to stipulate purchase price and length of contract. In AC's situation it will be £35m and we'll say 5 years (even tho I know it's 5.5yrs) for ease of calculation. In terms of Profit & Loss statement for a club this will mean £7m per season over those 5 years will hit the P&L. If you could just write the £35m to the P&L in the first season then this would mean a club like Citeh would be fine because they'd have already written all their transfer fees off in the year they were purchased and given that the FFP's initial calculation period is the next 3 years they'd be laughing. So again in Carroll's situation he's been at the club for 1 year so we've still got to write off £28m to the P&L over the next 4 years.

If he carries on playing like David Ngog's less talented brother then it has a massive effect. It's a complete waste of £7m + wages a season. Yes we've already spent it and we can't change that now but we're going to carry on suffering because of it in terms of FFP. If we could somehow convince someone to pay £20m for him soon then we'd take an £8m loss to the p&l (because we've already depreciated / amortised £7m of the fee). People will say that's a £15m loss on him but in accounting terms it's not, it's £8m. Cut our losses now I say but ofcourse that's presuming someone is prepared to give us a decent fee which i find highly unlikely.

Of course barring that I hope he smashes a hatrick at Wigan and plunders a further 20 in the remainder of the season so I can happily eat my words. (oh look a pig's just gone past my 3rd story window)

[Craig_H]

Thats the thing

Its rarely been sensible and constructive

Much of the comments on here are made through emotional decisions rather than anything else

The start of the season saw a group of posters slagging off Kenny for his transfer policy (without a ball being kicked)

As things have progressed this season and they've proven to look total ****wits they've moved on to their next target without acknowledging what complete pricks they looked earlier

Yet we still hear them come out with their words of wisdom and if on the very rare occasion it does so happen that they are right - they will come out with their "I told you so's"

There are players in the current side I dont like, but I dont choose to slag them off at every opportunity (despite the fact we paid big money for them)

I have a season ticket at LFC so I pay good money myself so should I therefore include a negative mention of said player in every post I make about every game/players etc...??

FFS some of the posters are so blind and stubborn they wont even acknowledge slight improvement if it goes against the grain of the main crux of their argument

Part of being a support is offerring support, I've seen precious little of that for Carroll to be honest

Hes been judged and sentenced by many people if reading this thread is anything to go by

[Craig_H]

There's no way your mate used the word 'plunders' Shaggy

I think you wrote all of that yourself

[Shaggy]

[Lecter]

Not by me he hasnt & Im sure Im not alone in this thread. However, I do have concerns.

Why waste so much time on the extremist clowns with no/scant response to the more constructive concerns?

I have concerns over him dont get me wrong but some of the criticism has been way OTT

[Lecter]

My mate is a fixed asset accountant and purely by chance has just emailed me lamenting Carroll and the money we wasted. Here's his take on whether the fee is relevant or not:

I knew someone would post something like this

If I remember rightly from (Uni - 20 plus years ago) amortisation is an accounting adjustment primarily used for reducing taxable income and I dont believe it has any effect on future cash flows*








* my apologies in advance to any accountants if this is incorrect