Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[rushscored4]

I think, and i may be wrong as I dont have the same access to Kenny as you do judging by your posts on the Dalglish thread, however I think Kenny was saying that in response to the tribe of mentals who were up in arms when Carroll didnt break Ian Rush's scoring record within three games of joining us

Ian Rush by the way was a striker who played for us in the 1980's.

Imagine if we had t'internet 30 years ago. Rushie took ten months to score his first league goal and would have been written off as "not good enough" in his first season...

[Craig_H]

The reason i'm basing it on minutes and the equivalent number of games, is because there's been times where he has come on with 10 minutes (or even about 6 minutes, in one recent game IIRC) and that's just ridiculous, you cannot attribute '1 game' to a 6 or 10 minute cameo, especially not when you're using the number of games played as a figure by which you work out what you'd expect him to have contributed for us.

[cream]

You also have to ask why isn't he playing so much...

[Craig_H]

You also have to ask why isn't he playing so much...

Not really. Otherwise you'd conclude that Maxi must be ****.

[Kenneth]

The reason i'm basing it on minutes and the equivalent number of games, is because there's been times where he has come on with 10 minutes (or even about 6 minutes, in one recent game IIRC) and that's just ridiculous, you cannot attribute '1 game' to a 6 or 10 minute cameo, especially not when you're using the number of games played as a figure by which you work out what you'd expect him to have contributed for us.

I agree completely, but as I have no point of reference (what's Yakubu's goals per 90 mins played figure for example?), while it seems like it's a decent return at face value it actually means very little to me. It's a statistical slight of hand lol, sort of.

[cream]

Not really. Otherwise you'd conclude that Maxi must be ****.

Don't be silly, there must be a reason why he hasn't been paying much.

[Lecter]

Imagine if we had t'internet 30 years ago. Rushie took ten months to score his first league goal and would have been written off as "not good enough" in his first season...

and Paisley when he won nothing in his first season

Yet people will still keep harping on that things have changed

Football hasn't changed, it's only the people watching it that has.

[Craig_H]

Don't be silly, there must be a reason why he hasn't been paying much.

So what is the reason then? That he is ****?

So why hasnt Maxi been playing much then? Is he also ****?

[Dalglish]

Imagine if we had t'internet 30 years ago. Rushie took ten months to score his first league goal and would have been written off as "not good enough" in his first season...

And his first season was the one on which we finished 5th. Sack Paisley

[cream]

So what is the reason then? That he is ****?

So why hasnt Maxi been playing much then? Is he also ****?

What is the reason then?

[Craig_H]

What is the reason then?

Why does the reason apply to Carroll then, but not to Maxi?

[rushscored4]

and Paisley when he won nothing in his first season

Yet people will still keep harping on that things have changed

Football hasn't changed, it's only the people watching it that has.

And his first season was the one on which we finished 5th. Sack Paisley

The Sky generation...

[Vermilion]

Just about everyone in the world knows who the best/better players in the bigger leagues are. Suddenly running some statistical analysis that favours Downing doesn't suddenly make him a great player. I've said it for years, football is played on grass, not on paper as much as people (me included) like to work things out statistically or in terms of what should make sense, there's nothing to guarantee that's how things will play out on the field.

I.e. If we had signed Santi Cazorla and he flopped, I'd have said '**** it, he's a quality player and it just didn't work out' because to be frank, there's no doubting his quality and potential ability. Also with that kind of signing if it doesn't work, you'll usually get a few isolated performances which will showcase their talents which could earn points despite being largely disappointing. Whereas signing Downing who we've all seen being painfully average for ****ty clubs for the better part of the last decade and expecting magic is horribly flawed logic. Not to mention the lack of ambition.



Hold on, you're seriously comparing Morientes to Carroll? ****ing hell. There is no doubting Morientes, he was one of the best players at one of the best clubs this century. He had competition from the best players in the world and proved his quality. He came as a 3 time CL winner. An established international, proven in Spain and France. It just didn't work out, he didn't fit with our other players either, and it's also worth noting he didn't play his natural position for a lot of the time as well. How you can compare that to a kid who scored some goals in the Championship and 11 goals in half a season in the Premiership is just madness. Morientes even proved his quality after he left by scoring goals at Valencia.

Also, with Moro, you could see he was a good player playing badly where as with Carroll, he looks like a below average player performing badly. When you consider their first touch, movement, game intelligence etc it's not worth comparing.

Splashing silly money on an unproven player who me and a number of others doubted fitting into our style/system was a terrible gamble. And before someone comes in with a "price doesn't matter" and I'm only "having a go because he was so expensive" - well when I see him, I no longer think of the money or the alternatives we could've gotten with the same kind of money, I just think; ****... this is the only option we have, and he's clearly not cutting the mustard and it doesn't look like he will do so in the near future. That's what I'm most concerned about.

Whooooosh. Yes, exactly, and my point is, if it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone, he was proven, and it still didn't work, so i don't see why every man and his dog is surprised or angry with AC because it's not yet worked for him.

Same thing with Lucas, he looked great before he came to us, dynamic even, but took his time to settle for us and didn't seem to be playing his usual game, the game that got him the move, it took time for us to see the best of him, but now he's an assett.

As for the excuses for Morientes and style of our play or players, well, i saw him have plenty of chances for us, chances he'd normally bury, but they just didn't go in for whatever reason.

[Kenneth]

and Paisley when he won nothing in his first season

Yet people will still keep harping on that things have changed

Football hasn't changed, it's only the people watching it that has.

Football has changed massively. Teams don't grow organically and raise revenue to spend on a long term plan these days. If a chairman strikes a big deal now, he buys a few world class players to celebrate.

In a way you are right, the the people watching it have changed, and the devoted local fans are a tiny fraction of the club's revenue compared to the old days. While Anfield may stay full though a decade of poor play and results, the Global TV audience will have moved on.

No point harking back to how things used to be.

[Kenneth]

The Sky generation...

It's much bigger than impatient teenagers watching SSN.