Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Muddled]

Unfortunately I don't think it's patience that is going to be rewarded.

You're talking about changing the way we play for one player yet that player doesn't even get in the first team. So that doesn't really make much sense.

If he's here in 12 months I'll be shocked.

I’m not talking about changing the team for one player, I’m saying that one player is changing for the team, so that’s why it probably doesn’t make sense.

I’m also suggesting that Carroll is being coached to bring something different to what he is used to and I’m also suggesting that the rest of the team are being coached to work off of what Carroll can do too.

[badpiggy]

I’m not talking about changing the team for one player, I’m saying that one player is changing for the team, so that’s why it probably doesn’t make sense.

I’m also suggesting that Carroll is being coached to bring something different to what he is used to and I’m also suggesting that the rest of the team are being coached to work off of what Carroll can do too.

I think everything you have said makes a lot of sense and, without doubt, patience is required. I still think there are two problems:

1. Regardless of whether Carroll cost £35m or £3.5 million, his purchase, his position on the pitch, his supposed physicality and aerial ability should all be leading to goals - they're not. So therefore we have our main centre forward not scoring, not getting into postions to score and not dominating and bullying defenders like his physique suggests he should. In fact we have in Carroll a main CF who wasn't picked to start against Arsenal - with a seriously bully-able - defence in what was genuinely our most important game of the season. He was thrown on in desparation in injury time to salvage a point.

2. Leading on from that is whether he has the attributes to be a significant goalscorer for a club chasing CL football and ultimately the League - again I see what you are saying and I understand the idea of Carroll learning to do different things and the other players learning how to play with him. But he just seems to be missing so much - a trick or two, controlling the ball to make some sort of space for himself, some sort of directness running at defenders, some sense that defenders are worried by him, attacking crosses either in the air or getting in front of his marker on the ground and some sort of idea of just running into space where people can find him and he can get a shot away quickly. I see none of this. And he's too ****in slow.

Now maybe the team is still some way off gelling and getting used to each other and maybe one of Carroll's biggest problems is the unpredictability of all this and he still hasn;t quite figured out how best to lead the line and maybe it's Suarez unpredictability that's his biggest problem cos he genuinely has no idea what he's going to do next or what direction the next ball is going to come from. I wish there were more signs of hope. Not fair to compare but when Crouchie had his barren half-season it was easy to say he was a good footballer, got into good positions, was great at making a bit of space for himself etc...

What can we say about Carroll? "Where the **** was Carroll???!!!" is what I've said most often watching him.

[Muddled]

I think everything you have said makes a lot of sense and, without doubt, patience is required. I still think there are two problems:

1. Regardless of whether Carroll cost £35m or £3.5 million, his purchase, his position on the pitch, his supposed physicality and aerial ability should all be leading to goals - they're not. So therefore we have our main centre forward not scoring, not getting into postions to score and not dominating and bullying defenders like his physique suggests he should. In fact we have in Carroll a main CF who wasn't picked to start against Arsenal - with a seriously bully-able - defence in what was genuinely our most important game of the season. He was thrown on in desparation in injury time to salvage a point.

2. Leading on from that is whether he has the attributes to be a significant goalscorer for a club chasing CL football and ultimately the League - again I see what you are saying and I understand the idea of Carroll learning to do different things and the other players learning how to play with him. But he just seems to be missing so much - a trick or two, controlling the ball to make some sort of space for himself, some sort of directness running at defenders, some sense that defenders are worried by him, attacking crosses either in the air or getting in front of his marker on the ground and some sort of idea of just running into space where people can find him and he can get a shot away quickly. I see none of this. And he's too ****in slow.

Now maybe the team is still some way off gelling and getting used to each other and maybe one of Carroll's biggest problems is the unpredictability of all this and he still hasn;t quite figured out how best to lead the line and maybe it's Suarez unpredictability that's his biggest problem cos he genuinely has no idea what he's going to do next or what direction the next ball is going to come from. I wish there were more signs of hope. Not fair to compare but when Crouchie had his barren half-season it was easy to say he was a good footballer, got into good positions, was great at making a bit of space for himself etc...

What can we say about Carroll? "Where the **** was Carroll???!!!" is what I've said most often watching him.

They are all fair comments and I take your points.

Carroll has been a inches away from bagging a couple of last-gasp winners, taking his tally nearer double figures and up there with the rest of our strikers. Off the top of my head, there were some great saves against Man City and Blackburn, the wrong side of a post against Norwich and the woodwork against Swansea and Newcastle.

I know it's all very 'if my aunty had balls, she'd be my uncle', but it shows he is capable of a variety of different goals and with a bit more luck and accuracy, our number nine would be our leading scorer, in a team that is misfiring as a collective.

I also think he is a confidence player and I don't think he is coping well with squad rotation. Again, I think the goals go in and we see Carroll controlling with one touch and linking up with the second; he hits the post or goes another game without a goal and he controls the ball with his third touch and is tackled before he can release the pass.

I agree something is missing from his game and I think it is his movement; he's very static and often he's waiting for the ball to be stood up for him to get a run on the ball as apposed to challenge from a standing start, so a low ball gets fizzed across the six yard line and he looks off the pace. I think with a little more time, we could see him showing more anticipation - but he needs to be a lot lighter on his feet.

I also think he needs to channel his aggression; he needs to use his frustration against defenders as apposed to the referee; get him angry but retain his composure and he'll be causing mischief that his frame dictates.

[BG1973]

I agree something is missing from his game and I think it is his movement; he's very static and often he's waiting for the ball to be stood up for him to get a run on the ball as apposed to challenge from a standing start, so a low ball gets fizzed across the six yard line and he looks off the pace. I think with a little more time, we could see him showing more anticipation - but he needs to be a lot lighter on his feet.

Well spotted!

Bad Piggy is spot on. He has absolutely no attributes you would expect from a top striker except physicality.


That's not enough for LFC and hopefully never will be.

[danperkins]

Carroll doesn't have a real goal scorers/forwards mentality to get into the box or to get in front of defenders. The 'phrase bust a gut' , just doesn't seem to apply to him. It's an instinct that he doesn't seem to have. His movement and technique is dreadful & our style of play does not suit his attributes as a player.

He is not good enough to build a team around & short of a miraculous change of form IMO think Kenny will have to make some big decisions in the summer, as if we get another striker i can't see Carroll getting much game time, and even less than he is now.

I'd love the lad to succeed, watching him at Newcastle he seemed a force to be reckoned with, but the Carroll & Liverpool mix just doesn't suit.

Hope he proves me wrong, same as Henderson and Downing but i can't see it.

[Muddled]

Well spotted!

Bad Piggy is spot on. He has absolutely no attributes you would expect from a top striker except physicality.


That's not enough for LFC and hopefully never will be.

You're input to this thread has been nothing short of extraordinary.

"Carroll is crap, because ... well, he's crap innit".

Done.

[Craig_H]

For those obsessing about the £35m and judging him against this - by the same token, if Bellamy turns in a run of **** performances, is it ok because he was free?

Carroll no more walks around with £35m stitched into his head than Bellamy does with 'Free' stitched into his. The money is gone, forget it. Just get behind the lad and he'll come good given the chance and some patience. He's been much better in the last 6 weeks and when he gets proper game time, he's now usually delivering more often than not.

[Kenneth]

Doesn't everyone go on about how amazing a buy bellamy was, buy of the season, because he was free and has been so good?

[Craig_H]

Doesn't everyone go on about how amazing a buy bellamy was, buy of the season, because he was free and has been so good?

A good buy is a player who does a good job for the team, regardless of the fee. If a free transfer plays ****, he's a **** buy.

Bellamy was such a good buy because he's such a good player. If he'd cost £10m, he'd still be a good buy.

[Kenneth]

Would Carroll have been a better buy if he cost 10m or was free? Assume not.

[Craig_H]

A good player is a good buy. Do Man Utd bemoan the £30m they paid for Rooney?

Are Real Madrid complaining at paying £80m for Ronaldo? If Torres was doing for Chelsea what he did for us, then £50m would be seen as a bargain. He's been ****, so it's a bad buy.

If the player does the job, the fee doesnt matter.

[Kenneth]

And if they don't, it still doesn't matter yes?

[Craig_H]

If they dont do the job, then they're no good to you and a bad signing.

[BG1973]

A good player is a good buy. Do Man Utd bemoan the £30m they paid for Rooney?

Are Real Madrid complaining at paying £80m for Ronaldo? If Torres was doing for Chelsea what he did for us, then £50m would be seen as a bargain. He's been ****, so it's a bad buy.

If the player does the job, the fee doesnt matter.

But the fee becomes a problem if it puts you under pressure as a manager to play a player that doesn't fit.

We always look better without Carroll in the side.

[BG1973]

You're input to this thread has been nothing short of extraordinary.

"Carroll is crap, because ... well, he's crap innit".

Done.

His hair is quite nice.