Stewart Downing - West Hahahaham player

[DannyMan2006]

Carroll was not worth £35m. At any time prior to last January it would have been foolish to spend that much on him.

We didn't wait until the summer because we had to spend then. That was the last window we could piss money up the wall before the FFP ruling came in.

The people who control money at the club knew what they were doing. To keep things ticking over they wanted a £15m profit from the sale of Torres, purchase of Carroll. Hence Carroll came for so much.

I know it was a lot of money, but that was the only chance we had to spend it. We went for other players before him, Gomez and Llorente, but they weren't for sale for £35m.

I would argue we should have gone for other targets that weren't strikers and waited until the summer. But we didn't really have the time in the end and the Carroll deal was last minute as it was. To much posturing by the Chavs to keep the price down meant our own deals were rushed.

In all, I guess we made the best we could of a bad situation.

[Mostar]

Read the thread properly mate....



Is the only thing i'm strongly disputing.

And the only thing I am strongly desputing is that we should be patient and wait 3 to 4 years for a player to hopefully develop that we paid 35m.

[kubrickscube]

Downing has never been a spectacular player, but a consistently effective cog in the machine. What has been noticeable is his lack of confidence. It is understandable moving to a bigger club you want to make the best possible start and not really hitting top gear has held him back. I'm sure he is aware a lot of fans don't rate him and that can't help. He now sometimes avoids taking players on as he is lacking in self belief- I don't think this is cowardice, and not playing every game (which surely he was previously used to) has clearly had a detrimental effect on his performances. To be honest - Carroll is in a very similar position.

So, to sum up:
MASSIVE inflated fee = INFLATED PRESSURE
No regular starting place = LACK OF CONTINUITY NEEDED TO BUILD FORM AND CONFIDENCE
Team losing games = fans go for OBVIOUS scapegoats = MORE PRESSURE, LESS CONFIDENCE

[Mattshark]

Downing has had a regular starting place though. There is just a big difference between being a midtable/lower half team player and playing for a big club.

[CJ]

Sorry CJ but what I said was that for the fee in question you expect to see either the finished product or close to be finished article (world class potential) and not wait 3 or 4 years for that player to develop.

There are plenty of examples of players who were either finished or close to it (have genuine potential to become world beaters) at "fragile" age of 22 and they all cost much less than what we paid for Carroll (e.g Henry, Higuain, Ibrahimovic, Benzema etc..

Personally the biggest issue to me that we spent a fortune on a player that had only 6 months of football at the highest level and I genuinely question the potential that we saw him.

so you think when they wrote that cheque that people at Liverpool thought thats it he is the finished article now. and that is why we paid 35?

[Craig_H]

And the only thing I am strongly desputing is that we should be patient and wait 3 to 4 years for a player to hopefully develop that we paid 35m.

Your comment:

"He should have been finished or close to be finished product by now and he is not."

Is completely wrong mate. A 22/23 year old is never going to be the finished product, or even close to it.

As i've said, if we want close to the finished product, then we should forget players younger than about 27.

There are plenty of examples of players who were either finished or close to it (have genuine potential to become world beaters) at "fragile" age of 22 and they all cost much less than what we paid for Carroll (e.g Henry, Higuain, Ibrahimovic, Benzema etc..

Sorry mate, but none of those were anywhere near the finished article at 22. Nowhere near.

[Kenneth]

Can anyone explained what 'the finished article' means please?

[Tee]

Can anyone explained what 'the finished article' means please?

Torres c.2008.

[RichC]

Rooney is another example. And Chamberlain. We pissed the Torres money away and should have waited until the Summer window and chosen our target more carefully.

And if we'd waited to spend the money until the summer most fans would have gone bonkers. We'd just got rid of one set of owners ****ing us over and FSG must have known how it would have looked if we'd taken the Torres money and not reinvested it.

[danperkins]

In short, Andy Carroll,Stuart Downing & Jordan Henderson have been a massive waste of money thus far

[Kenneth]

And if we'd waited to spend the money until the summer most fans would have gone bonkers. We'd just got rid of one set of owners ****ing us over and FSG must have known how it would have looked if we'd taken the Torres money and not reinvested it.

Possibly, but I doubt the owners got where they are today by burning good money for what are quire spurious reasons. Wouldn't have been hard to spin Torres as leaving us in the lurch without enough time to negotiate the purchase of a quality replacement, especially as it would appear that that is exactly what happened.

[saj]

In short, Andy Carroll,Stuart Downing & Jordan Henderson have been a massive waste of money thus far

Anybody who disagrees with that needs their head and balls examining

[Kenneth]

Torres c.2008.

ok, then perhaps the discussion is suffering from semantical issues as I doubt anyone would intend to say a 22 year old should be at the level of possibly the world's best stiker in his prime.

[danperkins]

Anybody who disagrees with that needs their head and balls examining

[saj]

ok, then perhaps the discussion is suffering from semantical issues as I doubt anyone would intend to say a 22 year old should be at the level of possibly the world's best stiker in his prime.

No but at £35 million pounds you would expect the person (regardless of their age) to be playing at a very very high standard and at the same time hopefully improve. He has been nothing short of mediocre.

Strikers younger or around the same age of Carroll who were playing at a high standard and improved:

Wayne Rooney (was playing better than Carroll at age 17)
Michael Owen (was playing better than Carrol at age 18)
Robbie Fowler (was playing better than Carroll at age 18)
Alan Shearer (was playing better than Carrol at age 21)
Fernando Torres (was world class and playing better than Carroll at age 23)
Emile William Ivanhoe Heskey (was a donkey but was still playing much better than Carroll at around 22)