Not liking the reports coming out from Athens

[Revo]

Tell me something mate - and i ask this as a genuine question...

How would you feel if there was a situation where so many fans bunked in and it lead to something along the lines of Hillsborough. Would you still never slate those responsible, if they WERE indeed responsible.

Because i certainly would. I cant believe you wouldnt.

ok here is the last word from me on this, after an initial surge from a few fans last night, the police retreated and it was a free fall for anyone, ticket or no ticket. once the ground was full to capacity, they then locked the gates for blatant disregard for anyone with a ticket. if you never had a ticket last night and you were there for that and you never went in to the ground, then id say it would be like walking past a hundred pound note on the floor and saying what the ****, it aint mine.

[Craig_H]

I witnessed the following:

One lad rob a ticket off a girl while we were just oustide the first security courdon within the stadium grounds. He got chased by several other reds before being caught and confronted. He handed the ticket back and that was that.

Loads of people pushing through the security courdons without tickets and subsequently loads of us being crushed. Thankfully I missed the real chaos some of my mates had to endure half an hour later...

One of my mates was involved in a crush at a courdon (and ended up getting tear gased) because a sh!t load of reds who either didn't have tickets and others who were refused entry because of forgeries would not back down. They kept pushing to get through until the police released tear gas at a crowd with loads of innocent fans being caught up.

There were far more fans in the ground than there were seats. People in my section were spilling on to the steps. I tried to get a drink at half time but it took over 10 minutes to get down half the steps so I sacked it and went back up to my seat. The real crying shame though were stories of people who had genuine tickets not being allowed into the ground because the stadium was too full. I personally don't know of anyone who wasn't allowed in but I heard plenty of stories after the game of many who were refused entry.

Overall, and I'm not just saying it because we lost, but Athens wasn't a patch on Istanbul... before and after the game.

You must've got in a bit after me mate. From the sounds of it, i got in not long before all the charging and shyte kicked off. Quite lucky for me.

Very sad to read though.

[Guest]

then why should i be told to listen to it. he's the mouthpiece of the people who only gave us 17,000 tickets when they knew we needed 40,000

FFS Alun, UEFA organize the event every year, so they are entitled to what x amount of tickets they want. It could be unfair but that's the law of the game.

Now, why would there be 40,000 fans willing to enter a stadium where our allocation is 17,000 ??? Are we so stupid as Liverpool fans ???

[bazza76]

WRONG, ITS VERY SIMPLE, ANYONE THATS BUYS A TOUTED TICKET SHOULD BE ABLE TO REPORT THAT SERIAL NUMBER AND THE CULPRITS BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT WONT WORK COS UEFA ARE THE BIGGEST ****ING TOUTS

I have always wondered too why, If UEFA as they say sometimes are clamping down so big on touts (yeah right) why dont they send our plain clothes police officers to atleast make the touts job harder and less desirable. Reflecting on that now, I am thinking that they may have problems within different countries trying to do this, but something has to be done to atleast make the touts job harder.
While I am thinking about it lol, what about, having a privacy statement regarding the tickets at the time of purchace, any tickets cought touting will automatically have the credit card debited with an automatic fine? probably would be a no goer for some reason or another, but just a thought.

[CJ]

interesting angle there JRC.

I think i agree however those who behaved badly are responsible for their behaviour. so yes procedural errors where made and this needs to be looked at it is no excuse for some of the behavior that has been alluded to

[Pacman]

I witnessed the following:

One lad rob a ticket off a girl while we were just oustide the first security courdon within the stadium grounds. He got chased by several other reds before being caught and confronted. He handed the ticket back and that was that.

Loads of people pushing through the security courdons without tickets and subsequently loads of us being crushed. Thankfully I missed the real chaos some of my mates had to endure half an hour later...

One of my mates was involved in a crush at a courdon (and ended up getting tear gased) because a sh!t load of reds who either didn't have tickets and others who were refused entry because of forgeries would not back down. They kept pushing to get through until the police released tear gas at a crowd with loads of innocent fans being caught up.

There were far more fans in the ground than there were seats. People in my section were spilling on to the steps. I tried to get a drink at half time but it took over 10 minutes to get down half the steps so I sacked it and went back up to my seat. The real crying shame though were stories of people who had genuine tickets not being allowed into the ground because the stadium was too full. I personally don't know of anyone who wasn't allowed in but I heard plenty of stories after the game of many who were refused entry.

Overall, and I'm not just saying it because we lost, but Athens wasn't a patch on Istanbul... before and after the game.

My mate had a real ticket and he never got in matey

[Craig_H]

Exactly. The point - surprisingly - many seem to neglect is that, HAD UEFA given out more tickets, HAD they chosen - after Parry had done so on NUMEROUS occasions - to act accordingly, we wouldn't be having these discussions about someone bunking in etc. I am absolutely CERTAIN there would have been less trouble had MORE tickets been allocated, had the ticketing scheme been much better organised. We then wouldn't go picking on one chap and his mates bunking in. I think it's just pathetic that people aren't looking at the CAUSE but the EFFECT. Short-sightedness to the hilt!

Hold on mate. Estimates say we had 50,000 or so in Athens. So are you suggesting UEFA should've given us 50,000 tickets?

The sad reality is that unless we have games like played in stadia of 90,000 plus all the time, there'll ALWAYS be more demand than supply.

UEFA DID balls up the allocation, no doubt.

But even if they hadnt, there'd still not be enough to meet the demand.

How could they get around that?

[alunevans]

Alun,

I agree that the ticket allocation is a Joke but if every final was at Wembley or the nou camp then there will be people who miss out. infact there may still be people that miss out.

if our fans where going around stealing tickets off one another and trying to get in wothout paying then those fans have to be held responsible forthere actions.

to blame Uefa for the actions of those is wrong. Yes when you dig deep then the ticket allocation is an issue and Uefa need to look at that to try to prevent it happening again but lets not use that to take away that we are all adults and are responsible for what we do.

I didnt have a ticket. i did think about going to Athens. i thought even if i cant get one then it would be a good atmosphere to be there. however if i did go what ever i did would be my fault not the fault of Uefa that there wherent enough tickets to mean i would get one.

Mate, where have I said its right to steal a fellow fan's ticket. Look again, I've consistently agreed thats a ****ty thing to do, and anyone doing it is scum.

My point is that if someone's arse was in someone elses seat last night it was most likely due to buying a forgery that even the stewards didn't spot despite three checks.

So if thats the norm of events then why blame ticket snatchers for fans being locked out. The ticket snatchers are ****bags yes, but thats not why someone was stood outside last night with a valid ticket in his hand is it?

I saw George Gillet express his sympathy with how few tickets there were and said that nonetheless our supporters are very "entrepeneurial" and he was sure that the stadium would be full of LFC supporters. What did he have in mind?

Presumably he was expecting people to buy from touts over there? It seems many touts weren't touts but forgers. I don't see how our people can be blamed for being duped.

[alunevans]

FFS Alun, UEFA organize the event every year, so they are entitled to what x amount of tickets they want. It could be unfair but that's the law of the game.

Now, why would there be 40,000 fans willing to enter a stadium where our allocation is 17,000 ??? Are we so stupid as Liverpool fans ???

George Gillet said he expected that many and that our fans were entrepeneurial and he was sure they'd get in. Maybe he's stupid too eh fredo.

If you think its UEFA's right to call the shots, even when in blatant contempt of the supporters, then there's little for us to discuss here.

[sean_lfc]

The fact is they didn't so fans are ment to just barge in then?

No. I didn't mean that. What I was trying to get at in my numerous posts (and which alun is trying to get at) is that the severity of the ticketing issue and people's/fans' consequent actions might have been much less severe if the ticketing issue had been even given TWO ****S about in the months leading up to the event.
No one can ever excuse any action of 'thugs and scum' (as someone so eloquently put it) but my point is there would have been MUCH LESS 'trouble' (forged tickets, overcrowding etc.) if UEFA had decided to give up 10000 of their tickets. Alas, it's ****ed up beyond recognition and I will not stop blaming UEFA for having placed more than 20000 (and by god it will have been many genuine fans, not 'thugs and scum') into the uncomfortable position of having to RELY on touts and the lot to get a ticket. If the official ticket channels were much better organised as a whole, these issues of people crushing etc. would not come into play, and if, it would be on a much smaller scale.

Anyway, I'm going in circles here, some people stand on the side of UEFA, some don't. I don't.

[Revo]

like the 4000 liverpool fans in the upper corner of the milan end. how did so many of them get them tickets

[FoxForceFive]

i do agree but i will never slate a fellow red for bunking in to the match

I think you'd change your mind were you stuck outside cos that many fans had bunked in that you werent allowed in despite having a ticket.

[bazza76]

Is that Dunk on the floor ?

where did you get the pic from mate? Is there a story behind it?

[alunevans]

Er, people will only get killed if fans get in without a ticket or with a forgery

Why is it 90% (I'd love to say 99%, but I doubt it), can accept the poor situation and not put other fans at risk (either to their well-being, or to being able to watch a game), but the rest can't.

If you get in with a forgery cos the authorities force you to go to a tout to get a ticket and the tout turns out not to be a tout but a forger, and the forgery is so good it gets past three ticket checks by the stadium organisers, how is that the FANS fault?

[Neil Young]

dont you read neil its tomorrow.

but its all hush hush so i cant say anything! sorry

I'm not really up on all this technology stuff. Thanks for the tip - I'll keep an eye out.