Not liking the reports coming out from Athens

[Craig_H]

i do agree but i will never slate a fellow red for bunking in to the match

Tell me something mate - and i ask this as a genuine question...

How would you feel if there was a situation where so many fans bunked in and it lead to something along the lines of Hillsborough. Would you still never slate those responsible, if they WERE indeed responsible.

Because i certainly would. I cant believe you wouldnt.

[disco]

er too ****ing right i piled into UEFA!!!! The wider picture is that their allocation policies WILL kill people before too long. What wider picture can there be than that for ****s sake??

Er, people will only get killed if fans get in without a ticket or with a forgery

Why is it 90% (I'd love to say 99%, but I doubt it), can accept the poor situation and not put other fans at risk (either to their well-being, or to being able to watch a game), but the rest can't.

[alunevans]

Fair enough - guess we'll have to wait for other reports on it, but I think you're living in denial.

Other reports than UEFA's would be nice yes. I find it hard to believe why anyone would take these *******'s word as gospel mate.

[Revo]

why not?

why not? well why

[desertscouser]

I witnessed the following:

One lad rob a ticket off a girl while we were just oustide the first security courdon within the stadium grounds. He got chased by several other reds before being caught and confronted. He handed the ticket back and that was that.

Loads of people pushing through the security courdons without tickets and subsequently loads of us being crushed. Thankfully I missed the real chaos some of my mates had to endure half an hour later...

One of my mates was involved in a crush at a courdon (and ended up getting tear gased) because a sh!t load of reds who either didn't have tickets and others who were refused entry because of forgeries would not back down. They kept pushing to get through until the police released tear gas at a crowd with loads of innocent fans being caught up.

There were far more fans in the ground than there were seats. People in my section were spilling on to the steps. I tried to get a drink at half time but it took over 10 minutes to get down half the steps so I sacked it and went back up to my seat. The real crying shame though were stories of people who had genuine tickets not being allowed into the ground because the stadium was too full. I personally don't know of anyone who wasn't allowed in but I heard plenty of stories after the game of many who were refused entry.

Overall, and I'm not just saying it because we lost, but Athens wasn't a patch on Istanbul... before and after the game.

[badpiggy]

why not? well why

because it's basically theft. i don't like thieves. thieving is an attitude as well as an act and in this case it says **** you to every paying fan.

[sean_lfc]

Pacman, of course there will be an element of individuals in any group of thousands who are in the wrong in a situation like this. But is that the point really?

Exactly. The point - surprisingly - many seem to neglect is that, HAD UEFA given out more tickets, HAD they chosen - after Parry had done so on NUMEROUS occasions - to act accordingly, we wouldn't be having these discussions about someone bunking in etc. I am absolutely CERTAIN there would have been less trouble had MORE tickets been allocated, had the ticketing scheme been much better organised. We then wouldn't go picking on one chap and his mates bunking in. I think it's just pathetic that people aren't looking at the CAUSE but the EFFECT. Short-sightedness to the hilt!

[Guest]

er too ****ing right i piled into UEFA!!!! The wider picture is that their allocation policies WILL kill people before too long. What wider picture can there be than that for ****s sake??

There will always be allocation policies, you have to live with that. Who is organizing the bloody event mate ? The fans ??

[disco]

Thanks Desert.

****ing shame to hear all that.

Revo - you can't seriously condone that?!

[The incredible igor]

i do agree but i will never slate a fellow red for bunking in to the match

I will, they're putting themselves and all the real fans at risk

[Pacman]

Pacman, of course there will be an element of individuals in any group of thousands who are in the wrong in a situation like this. But is that the point really?

No your right the point is Uefa need to look at the ticketing and organisation of these events I totally and utterly agree. This would never have happpened had it been organised better and tickets distributed to the real fans.

But it wasn't and they weren't so you can't just take it upon yourself to do what some fans did last night.

[disco]

Exactly. The point - surprisingly - many seem to neglect is that, HAD UEFA given out more tickets, HAD they chosen - after Parry had done so on NUMEROUS occasions - to act accordingly, we wouldn't be having these discussions about someone bunking in etc. I am absolutely CERTAIN there would have been less trouble had MORE tickets been allocated, had the ticketing scheme been much better organised. We then wouldn't go picking on one chap and his mates bunking in. I think it's just pathetic that people aren't looking at the CAUSE but the EFFECT. Short-sightedness to the hilt!

See my post above. We all know and don't dispute the cause, but the effects are the decisions of dumb**** 'fans' NOT Uefa.

[CJ]

Alun we did not need 40,000 tickets we wanted them. there is no need for any tickets.

i know it sounds arsy

[JRC]

If I went to get on a plane, or to the theatre, or any other event, to find that I couldn't get on/in because the airline/theatre/people organizing the event had let people on/in without valid tickets, I would blame them directly; if it transpired that those self-same organizers had in fact conspired in ensuring that demand outstripped supply, and had seeded a Black Market which actively encouraged touting and forgeries (by guaranteeing a substntial return and ready market), were aware and forewarned that there would be many such fans without valid tickets, and then did not put in place adequate procedures to prevent those who did not have valid tickets getting in, I would be expecting to see the heads rolling of senior people at that organization.

1 point - cutting through the various stories, it seems nobody got in because gates were 'stormed';there may have been a lot of people around, and some queue-delimiting temporary barriers got shoved around, but there was also a heavy and active police presence to counter that; invalid entry seems to have been primarily due to a failure to check for valid tickets, which is, pure and simple, a procedural, organizational issue. If, as UEFA claim, the fault is because people without tickets turned up - why bother with tickets? If UEFA proposed an 'honour' system whereby people who had paid didn't have to show any proof, but just told the stewards, 'Oh I've paid', and no-one who hadn't paid was expected to turn up, we'd rightly ridicule them for their naivety and stupidity; But an access system (supposedly high-tech) which fails to exclude those who don't have valid tickets, and only 'works' if only those who have valid tickets turn up is no better

[Pacman]

Exactly. The point - surprisingly - many seem to neglect is that, HAD UEFA given out more tickets, HAD they chosen - after Parry had done so on NUMEROUS occasions - to act accordingly, we wouldn't be having these discussions about someone bunking in etc. I am absolutely CERTAIN there would have been less trouble had MORE tickets been allocated, had the ticketing scheme been much better organised. We then wouldn't go picking on one chap and his mates bunking in. I think it's just pathetic that people aren't looking at the CAUSE but the EFFECT. Short-sightedness to the hilt!

The fact is they didn't so fans are ment to just barge in then?