Man City V Liverpool - Post Match Celebrations and ZOMG Sensible Debate!!!11

[red g]

We could also have been 1-0 up, arbeloa cleared properly and Ireland arriving late, garrido not scoring the goal of his career could all have made it a different game.

No team plans to conceed goals but it happens against good sides. Ffs why don't people give our players and boss a bit of slack???

[Aza]

Thanks for the link to redcafe Shaggy

Fair do's to all the Mancs who weren't complete cocks about Skyrtel and the final result

Skipped through most of pages 4, 5 and 6 of this thread due to the amount of moaning ****e

Every silver lining has a black cloud to **** it up hey?

"Celebration"... look it up you moaning cunts

[Craig_H]

We could also have been 1-0 up, arbeloa cleared properly and Ireland arriving late, garrido not scoring the goal of his career could all have made it a different game.

No team plans to conceed goals but it happens against good sides. Ffs why don't people give our players and boss a bit of slack???

Possibly because the margin of error if you want to win the title is tiny.

[rage]

Comments like that are why most people on here think you are a muppet and just shows how little you really understand the game

my opinion is based upon 4 seasons and not a single title challenge. until i see rafa mount a title challenge my opinion of rafa, whether the majority of posters disagree with me, is a valid opinion.

i have been watching liverpool since the 70s and i know plenty about watching a title winning team.

this season we are getting the results but on too many occasions we have had to come back from behind. every time we have done this the negating the opposition tactics have been put to one side and we have played in an aggressive and free manner. this proves to me that rafa's initial strategy has failed.

do people really think week in week out we'll come back from 2 nil down?

i give credit where it is deserved. i would rather not have been 2 nil down on sunday and i was made up for kuyt for instance when he scored - however, against teams like city i do not think he merits a starting place where i think a more forward focused right sided midfielder would have been a better choice. i was wrong with riera he is not the same player that played at city a few seasons ago BUT i cannot work out why we would spend a record amount of money on an overweight fullback.

i would love to be proven wrong and for rafa to win the title, being wrong about our manager pales into insignificance to winning the title.

some posters need to get a grip with the personal insults. i'm sure there would be an uproar if i responded in a similar manner.

[Craig_H]

In fairness rage, while i understand some of your points, i dont agree with everything you say and yesterday's game isnt the best example to use as evidence of rafa getting it wrong.

[red g]

my opinion is based upon 4 seasons and not a single title challenge. until i see rafa mount a title challenge my opinion of rafa, whether the majority of posters disagree with me, is a valid opinion.

i have been watching liverpool since the 70s and i know plenty about watching a title winning team.

this season we are getting the results but on too many occasions we have had to come back from behind. every time we have done this the negating the opposition tactics have been put to one side and we have played in an aggressive and free manner. this proves to me that rafa's initial strategy has failed.

do people really think week in week out we'll come back from 2 nil down?

i give credit where it is deserved. i would rather not have been 2 nil down on sunday and i was made up for kuyt for instance when he scored - however, against teams like city i do not think he merits a starting place where i think a more forward focused right sided midfielder would have been a better choice. i was wrong with riera he is not the same player that played at city a few seasons ago BUT i cannot work out why we would spend a record amount of money on an overweight fullback.

i would love to be proven wrong and for rafa to win the title, being wrong about our manager pales into insignificance to winning the title.

some posters need to get a grip with the personal insults. i'm sure there would be an uproar if i responded in a similar manner.

when was the last time we were 2 nil down?

Would you honestly prefer rafa sacked, a new man coming in and player unrest followed by another 3 year building plan....where will the new man get the money from?

your wish to see rafa sacked is sheer lunacy

[rage]

when was the last time we were 2 nil down?

Would you honestly prefer rafa sacked, a new man coming in and player unrest followed by another 3 year building plan....where will the new man get the money from?

your wish to see rafa sacked is sheer lunacy

no i want rafa sacked if he fails to deliver this year. if we're out of the title race by xmas then sacking him at xmas gives a new manager half a season before it really matters.

we stayed too long with houiller and his 5 year plan and it cost us. if rafa doesn't compete this year then he never will imo

[rage]

In fairness rage, while i understand some of your points, i dont agree with everything you say and yesterday's game isnt the best example to use as evidence of rafa getting it wrong.

craig that's a fair point and i accept the criticism. see all that without calling me a dozen different names

[Sarb]

You deserve the criticism because you talk so much out of your arse sometimes. Lol at the way you take credit for 'allegedly' saying that we needed to be more positive and attack and we were too negative (well Rafa ) etc ... blah blah

It's so easy to come out trumps with statements like that when you've doubted Rafa and wanted him to be sacked.

The same Fredo who still thinks he was right slating Xabi Alonso in the summer

[Crazy-Horse]

It's very rare that we'll come back from 2-0 down at HT to win the game and i for one would rather we didnt make a habit of playing in a manner that causes us to be in that situation.

Having said that, the only fault i could find with Rafa yesterday was that our players heads dropped and we didnt show enough fight for the last 20 mins of the 1st half. He did sort this out at half time though and deserves plenty of credit for that second half performance.

I think what most posters (who have a rosier world view) object to is comments like...

"i think we won yesterday inspite of him." as being repeated as a litany.

I have no beef with posters that question tactics, players etc, and then are prepared to put their hand's up, like yourself. After all, you started the other thread labeled Rafa in which you recognised the impact of the Rafa halftime talk...

As my son said when watching the the game yesterday, at the point where Torres scored his first... "Wasn't 55 minutes the beginning of six crazy minutes in May 05?"....It took slightly longer yesterday, but we got the third. Lots of us questioned Rafa's subs decisions in that game, as the thread shows people questioning them yesterday. However, most of us have the good grace to say "Rafa got it right - lets enjoy the sweet taste of victory!" but there are always some who state quite clearly... "i still want rafa to be sacked..... I do not rate him as a premier league winning manager and i feel that if he does not deliver the title after 5 years he will be sacked." and this tends to get people's backs up.

I am predicting that when the end of the season arrives with Liverpool as Champions, some posters will start with "Rafa was just lucky - United were in disarray because Ronaldo wanted out, Chelsea had injuries to key players etc etc".

[Guest]

The same Fredo who still thinks he was right slating Xabi Alonso in the summer

Alonso didn't merit to be in the side based on his poor season last.

[Red Chilli]

Rafa frustrates the bejeezus out of me on many occasions, but who the hell are we going to replace him with if he went? There's no-one available who could give us the instant improvement that we need. Every manager needs time and if we bin Rafa now it'll be another 5 years before we get back to where we are now. Rafa is building momentum and until that stops or starts to reverse then I think we should back him

[MrMichael]

Oh crikey. This thread has gone well then.

I guess there's a discussion here that needs to be had on this site, I was tempted to go through this with the delete button pressed but on second thoughts I think I'll mostly leave it alone as this needs sorting and its up to us, as a "community", to get this right.

I understand how the enduring "negativity" of certain posters annoys many others, and there were some pretty ridiculous things said in the match thread preceeding this one..... although for the most part, to be fair, the culprits have held their hands up and either clarified their points or withdrawn them. We all get emotional during games, especially ones that don't seem to go smoothly, and people respond to that in different ways. It'd certainly be good if some would realise how making certain points while a game is in progress comes across to everyone else, and modify their tone somewhat for the context. I do believe that people should be entitled to express their genuine opinions on here, and we've always adopted a laissez-faire attitude to match threads as people do sometimes go a bit ott in the heat of games, but a bit of restraint from some quarters in some situations would help everyone enjoy the site a lot more imo.

On the other hand, some of the abusive and personal comments aimed at some people for expressing their opinions are also rather unhelpful and doesn't exactly improve things on here. For the most part, those cast as "negative" on this site tend to be more than willing to appropriately debate their opinions without resorting to abuse of other posters who disagree with them. I know its not always easy to avoid, and that in the same way as their posts are often borne out of footballing frustration, some of the more colourful posts in response to them are borne out of forum frustration, but following that pattern we end up in a vicious and divisive circle where everyone is erronously cast as in one camp or another, and threads descend into personality posting rather than discussion about the reason we are all here... liverpool fc.

So anyway, we have a problem, and there's no time like an international break to try to fix it. Its a fact that a lot of people are getting pissed off with the perceived dominance of "negativity" on here, and it is in nobody's interest for that to drive people away from the site, yet we are never going to end up in a situation where everyone agrees on everything, and if we did there wouldn't be a lot to discuss. One's status as a fan is not necessarily defined by the positivity of one's outlook, and I'm damn sure that should the team be genuinely successful this season, the posters whose outlook currently is more negative will celebrate as hard as everyone else (btw Rage, if we win the league this year you're streaking round Anfield with "Rafa is a God" painted on your back!), but I also understand how annoying many find it to read so many threads going in the same direction with seemingly the same posters adopting the same positions ad nauseum.

My best suggestion (and I'm more than willing to listen to other constructive ones) is as ever for people to try to make a positive difference to the tone of discussions on here by responding to the well made, interesting and thought-provoking posts, be they positive or negative, with similar posts of their own, rather than entering into mud-slinging matches over posts that are best ignored. That is the best, and perhaps only way, to foster a culture of respect over one of confrontation, and make this site more enjoyable and interesting for everyone. If a change in moderating tack, perhaps to keep threads more on topic is wanted. we'll see what can be done, but there's only so much we can do without getting unpleasantly draconian, which is not what this site is supposed to be about. Really, this one is up to you lot; this site will get nowhere without its members wanting to make it better.

Otherwise we might as well give up now and beg D*nk to take us all back.......

[Red Chilli]

Seems to me like the amazing nature of our result this weekend caused all this conflict.
2-0 down, of course some people are going to react negatively and there'll be a spectrum of negative posts. Some won't even post, they'll just be pissed off and silent, whereas some will go to the other extreme and let emotion exaggerate their negativity.
45 minutes later and the opposite occurs. Obviously there are more people willing to be positive and excited than there are neggies. So you get the same exaggerations. Unfortunately it spilled over into making an example of the neggies, probably light-hearted in intention but inevitably spiralling on. Had it stayed at 2-2 it probably wouldn't have happened.
I reckon it's pretty much a one-off and the international break will let things settle down. Pointless post, just thought I'd give my take

[MrMichael]

Seems to me like the amazing nature of our result this weekend caused all this conflict.
2-0 down, of course some people are going to react negatively and there'll be a spectrum of negative posts. Some won't even post, they'll just be pissed off and silent, whereas some will go to the other extreme and let emotion exaggerate their negativity.
45 minutes later and the opposite occurs. Obviously there are more people willing to be positive and excited than there are neggies. So you get the same exaggerations. Unfortunately it spilled over into making an example of the neggies, probably light-hearted in intention but inevitably spiralling on. Had it stayed at 2-2 it probably wouldn't have happened.
I reckon it's pretty much a one-off and the international break will let things settle down. Pointless post, just thought I'd give my take

Nah, not pointless at all mate, and to an extent, certainly in the context of this thread, you're probably right. However there's been unhappiness in some quarters at the way things are debated on here for ages, and recently I've seen quite an increase in a feeling of discontent, discord, and various other dis'es amongst members, so I'd like to try to get it discussed sensibly and sorted a bit before it gets any more out of hand (and before it does my head in completely).