An open letter to Robbie keane

[dww]

That's ridiculous.

Ok, so people wont use 'rcdnwb' then. They'll just say "People who think rafa is always right". People need to lighten up and get a life.

PWTRIAR.

RCDNW is easier

But censorship is rife.

I think you entirely miss the point. using label like RCDNW lumps people together and forces the discussing into a confrontational mode and distracts from any interesting points that are made. The specific label used is pretty much irrelevant it is the fact that doing any such thing is emblematic of a style of argument that is fruitless and largely unenjoyable and a level of disrepect of fellow posters views.

In general the censorship exercised here aims to encourage enjoyable discussion.

[red g]

Ideally yes, but there wasnt the time. I think it was key to sell him now, in the summer he'd have been worth even less.

As for treatment, i dont think there's a big issue there. He played 28 games for us, and didnt deliver. You could argue about giving him more time, but that would've been a huge gamble because if he'd not improved, his value in the summer would've been even less.
He was used as a bit of a pawn in the political stuff with rafa and parry, but everyone knows that if Keane had set the world on fire, rafa would've forgotten that he hadnt wanted him in the first place and taken full advantage of this player who he had putting in world class performances and winning games for us. The only problem was that Keane never became that player.

not just that, by playing him more it may have just cost us the chance of the premiership. Rafa coulndt win by keeping him. play him all the time and it could cost us the title, leave him on the bench and then that becomes an even bigger story. The fact is that Keane for whatever reason has definitely cost us points this year we would have done better without him and think we do better without him for the rest of the year

[Elvoz]

Was going to say the same, but couldn't be arsed. Rafa want's control, sound like a man looking for excuses...NOT! More a man desperate to win us the title imo.

[Reece]

Oh the irony

Oh grow up Craig.

[Craig_H]

I think you entirely miss the point. using label like RCDNW lumps people together and forces the discussing into a confrontational mode and distracts from any interesting points that are made. The specific label used is pretty much irrelevant it is the fact that doing any such thing is emblematic of a style of argument that is fruitless and largely unenjoyable and a level of disrepect of fellow posters views.

In general the censorship exercised here aims to encourage enjoyable discussion.

But the point is that there ARE people who think some posters come across as thinking that rafa can indeed do no wrong. People who share that view are lumped together into a category of people who share that view. What's wrong with that? Are people not allowed to think that, or express it?

I think Rafa's too cautious - so if i'm lumped into a group of people who think rafa is too cautious, so be it.



I'm confused as to what it is exactly that isnt allowed.

The censorship that is aiming to encourage enjoyable discussion is apparently telling people that they can only have a certain type of discussion and only express some of their views, which i find a bit weird.

Oh grow up Craig.

It's nothing to do with growing up mate, it's just emphatically ironic that you accused me of making a big thing of something, while putting out the message that 'rcdnw' is some big disasterous expression that nobody is allowed to use, for all the destruction it apparently causes.

If you cant see that irony, so be it. We'll agree to disagree, i'll accept that and move on.

[DannyMan2006]

Ideally yes, but there wasnt the time. I think it was key to sell him now, in the summer he'd have been worth even less.

As for treatment, i dont think there's a big issue there. He played 28 games for us, and didnt deliver. You could argue about giving him more time, but that would've been a huge gamble because if he'd not improved, his value in the summer would've been even less.

He was used as a bit of a pawn in the political stuff with rafa and parry, but everyone knows that if Keane had set the world on fire, rafa would've forgotten that he hadnt wanted him in the first place and taken full advantage of this player who he had putting in world class performances and winning games for us. The only problem was that Keane never became that player.

He was not used as a pawn. He simply failed to deliver and as such was not played often. The price tag brought about too much pressure on the club and player and began to effect everyone. Every time he didn't play it was all about Keane and him failing to deliver on his valuation.

We have seen in te past when signing a striker that these questions do not get asked often. I think Bellamy delivered more on the pitch than Keane, yet there was never anybody asking why he was not in he team. Obviously this was because he cost £6.5m, as opposed to Keane who cost £20m.

[Craig_H]

not just that, by playing him more it may have just cost us the chance of the premiership. Rafa coulndt win by keeping him. play him all the time and it could cost us the title, leave him on the bench and then that becomes an even bigger story. The fact is that Keane for whatever reason has definitely cost us points this year we would have done better without him and think we do better without him for the rest of the year

Yep, whichever way rafa played it, having keane at the club was always going to be a big wedge on rafa's back. He had to be sold really.

[Vermilion]

i never said thats all he sold him for

but cant be arsed going on anymore - you think your right i dont

time to move on

About what, i haven't stated anything.

But to insinuate that because Keane has gone Rafa now has an excuse for not winning the league is daft, and shows more than a little bitterness, yes bitterness towards Rafa.

Ok...now we can move on.

[dww]

But the point is that there ARE people who think some posters come across as thinking that rafa can indeed do no wrong. People who share that view are lumped together into a category of people who share that view. What's wrong with that? Are people not allowed to think that, or express it?

I think Rafa's too cautious - so if i'm lumped into a group of people who think rafa is too cautious, so be it.



I'm confused as to what it is exactly that isnt allowed.

The censorship that is aiming to encourage enjoyable discussion is apparently telling people that they can only have a certain type of discussion and only express some of their views, which i find a bit weird.

You are allowed to think whatever you want. The rhetorical device of lumping people together however accurate does not encourage discussion of any specific point under discussion. Therefore using well know labels that annoy people and do nothing but divert from discussion is frowned upon and people were asked to stop.

The discussion we don't want to have is one where all that happens is one set of people calls the other RCDNW, they call those who do it RCNDNR or some such bollocks and ignore all worthwhile points made. It has happened here too often in the past, so now we are attempting to pro actively prevent that. If you really want to have this discussion in full then we can move it to the sin bin but I'm not likely to be available much today so you may be in there a long while.

[DannyMan2006]

About what, i haven't stated anything.

But to insinuate that because Keane has gone Rafa now has an excuse for not winning the league is daft, and shows more than a little bitterness, yes bitterness towards Rafa.

Ok...now we can move on.

If I was Rafa and I failed to win the league, the first thing I would probably say is that had the players I wanted been purchased it may have been a different outcome.

[Baldemort]

I wouldnt go as far as apologising to mr keane, as he hardly set the world alight with his performances, and maybe if he had scored more and missed a few less sitters he would still be playing for us. But i do feel sorry for him to some degree as it is now obvious that he was a pawn in a power struggle. Had he been rafa's first choice and not parry's then i am sure he would have seen the same level of support and patience that inferior players such as kuyt and crouch have seen, and in dirk's case, continue to see. I am glad parry has now been put in his place and that rafa has more control, as he should, but at what cost? We have lost millions and are now very thin on the ground with decent strikers. In fact, we only have one now.

[Elvoz]

If I was Rafa and I failed to win the league, the first thing I would probably say is that had the players I wanted been purchased it may have been a different outcome.

correct

[Neil Young]

correct

OK but that's not the same as saying a shortage of strikers caused by us selling Keane and not getting in a replacement gives Rafa "the perfect excuse" for not winning the league which is what you originally said.

[Elvoz]

OK but that's not the same as saying a shortage of strikers caused by us selling Keane and not getting in a replacement gives Rafa "the perfect excuse" for not winning the league which is what you originally said.

we were top and should be top now
if we dont win the league expect bull**** excuses
i am a fan of rafa but i must confess my support is not a sstrong these days

i suppose when or if we finish 2nd loads on here will be doin cartwheels
i wont

[Neil Young]

we were top and should be top now
if we dont win the league expect bull**** excuses
i am a fan of rafa but i must confess my support is not a sstrong these days

i suppose when or if we finish 2nd loads on here will be doin cartwheels
i wont

If that happens I don't think anyone here will be doing cartwheels but maybe some people are better at dealing with frustration and disappointment than others.