Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[sean_lfc]

Did you consider the Observers' Paradox before you posted that Sean?

Subconsciously I might have. Being German, we do like things in order. 100 is better than 99.

Edit: First post on the 100!

[Roboklopp]

And your post begins the 100th page...

[sean_lfc]

Just saw it!

[ChesterDave]

Page 67

[brightred]

Paul Mc Grath, Luis Suarez and Glen Johnson

I see Paul Mc Grath had a pop at Luis and Glen in the papers. Given that man's history he really should refrain from moralising about anyone else.

[Norbs]

I think this might belong in the Suarez racism thread mate

[wavydavy]

In other news Germany invades Poland.

[Mostar]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnPoCqaQ44"]The Defamation of a Character - YouTube[/ame]

[Stanbull]

PREVARICATE....... To speak falsely or misleadingly; deliberately mis-state or create an incorrect impression; to lie.

It is also strangely an anagram of Patrice evra

[brightred]

I think this might belong in the Suarez racism thread mate

Oops, sorry norbert!!

[cream]

In other news Germany invades Poland.

Have they !

No wonder they're all over here.

[brightred]

Have they !

No wonder they're all over here.

Lol!!

[kemm1]

So.basically Kemm, you're accepting that Suarez might well not be racist, that there well might be have been a lot lost in translation (although it wasn't translated by anyone except the poorly-qualified FA) and that he might be completely ignorant of any nuances or undertones in a language & culture he is relatively new to, but you're prepared to see him treated in a sufficiently draconian & clumsy manner that, despite the admission of both the FA & Evra himself that Suarez is not a racist, will see the vast majority of the public & press view & treat him as such, thereby ensuring he & his family are subject to a great deal of abuse as well as an extensive on- field ban, as oppsed to a public warning & education course? Notwithstanding that Evra's own initial racial insult was just that in the vernacular of course.

Once you are tarred with such a horrific tag as "racist", it is nigh on impossible to lose of course, no matter what your behaviour. Similar to the way Suarez has been castigated universally as a "cheat" since he got here, whilst other equal & worse offenders are turned a blind eye to in that respect.

You're so way off base on what I'm saying I don't even know where to begin. Read my posts again and the debates that I've had with others and maybe my points may be a bit clearer.

[Jack D Rips]

For what its worth. Diega Forlan on facebook.


Diego Forlan


El grave problema de la discriminación -no sólo racial- que existe hoy en el mundo, ¿se logrará controlar con sanciones tan improcedentes, inapropiadas e injustas como la que se le ha aplicado a nuestro querido compañero Luis Suárez?

El tiempo es el gran aclarador, y a través de él los hechos ocuparán su justa posición. Fuerza Luis

The serious problem about discrimination, not only racism nowadays, it will be only control with fines as inadmisible and inappropriate as the one imposed to our beloved team mate Luis Suárez ?

There's a time and a place for everything. Time will tell Forza Luis

[Craig_H]

I find this whole Suarez said something racist debate extremely frustrating.
The debate is full of such ignorance of the Spanish language and South American society. This ignorance seems to go hand in hand with hubris. Many people have googled the spanish term "negro" and then gone off on one, with no understanding of the nuances of language.

First.

The spanish word "Negro" does not mean negro. It means black. So if you want a black coffee. You will say
Un cafe negro por favor.
I point this out because I have seen countless idiots ( not so much on here but on other forums) exclaim that the word spanish word negro is the equivalent of the english word negro, a derogatory term. But he didn't come anywhere close to saying the spanish equivalent of this word !

Second.
The suffix "ito" does not just mean little or small !!! Excuse the exclamation marks but I feel like pulling my hair out when I say people saying he called him a small black man so clearly he was having a go at
(A) his skin colour
(B) his height.
To say someone or something is small in size we use the adjective pequeno.

So small black guy is "hombre negro pequeño"

The suffix "ito" is used as a term of affection, to indicate closeness or affection for who you are talking to.
It's used sometimes to indicate something is small and cute looking.

Think of how we say to children
Put on your Jammies - ( meaning pajamas )
Or
Isn't he a nice doggie ?

"Ito" is used very frequently in Spanish. It indicates an attempt to show closeness with who you are talking to.

It's never really used in an attempt to be condescending. In fact it would come off as laughably childlike if you tried to use it to insult someone.


Cultual and Historical Aspect.


In Uruguay and South America they have a specific term for use when talking to a black person who is your friend.

I don't think we have an equivalent English word. But imagine. Think about a black friend of yours. Imagine that there is a term that everyone uses, and which black people like have said about them, imagine such a word.

It's a good thing that the Spanish language is so carefree and warm that they have this word. It would be a good thing if we had such a word in England and Ireland and the States. But all of our histories ( Ireland's only through being forced to enter the UK ) are bound up with horrible abuses towards people with dark skin. We have no such word because we have for centuries treated blacks as inferior to us.


examples of the use of Negrito

Take the tweet Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 colleague Thiago Alcântara via Twitter recently. "Negrito, enjoy yourself," it began.

It clearly means, my black friend.

Not little black man.

Another example is of Javier Hernández, now Evra's team-mate at United, in an interview on the Chivas Guadalajara website in 2007, where the Mexican is quoted complimenting "the goal of the Negrito", talking about his team-mate Omar Esparza.

* I would speculate that Hernandez MUST have used the term Negrito with Evra. Tevez MUST have used it with him.

When Uruguay won their second World Cup in 1950 the world sat up and paid attention. Unlike their first triumph in 1930, many European teams refused to play as the tournament was held in Uruguay, this WC was actually taken seriously by a good number of teams.

The Uruguayans won playing a tough, attacking brand of football. Their victory was more remarkable because their coach was black. Think of it. We have very very few managers in any league of football and here we have a black National team manager in 1950 !

What did they call this man.
El Negro Jefe !

There's a statue to him in the capital with the simple inscription.
El Negro Jefe.

I'm trying to point out that negro and negrito are so common and so everyday when describing a black person that they are not offensive.

We, English speakers, have no way of translating what this term means in Uruguay, for what is language but only a depository of our cultural mores and beliefs. Certain words resonate with dark undertones in our society because of our history. The history of the English language is invariably tied in with the history of England, which is tied in with the history of Empire building. We are hung up about certain words because our forefathers spent hundred of years subjecting black people to a horrible degrading tyranny.
In our language, in our thoughts, in our known examples, we can't find a way to explain what Suarez said.

We don't have the word to use to black people which means "my black friend".
But you can such a word if you delve a little into Uruguayan history, if you know something about or care to learn something about another country's values and social norms.