Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Neil Young]

Whether you agree or not it will always be the case where many black people will openly use the word nigga to refer to each other but will not tollerate white people using the word. I think you would have to be pretty damn naive and ignorant if you don't understand why they would never tollerate white people using it.

[Lecter]

And as a result they have effectively said one person's set of cultural meanings is superior to someone else's.

Isnt that itself racist/xenophobic?

[Shaggy]

Hmm. So opinion among black people is divided on it. But I'm really not sure that it's remotely significant whether a white person "buys into it" or not.

Never said it was significant.

I've never bought into the reclaiming thing either but no disrespect Shaggy as a white person you'll never fully understand the whole reclaiming thing anyway. Don't take offence mate.

None taken whatsoever.

[BigChief]

Never said it was significant.



None taken whatsoever.

He just called you a stupid gora.

[wavydavy]

Whether you agree or not it will always be the case where many black people will openly use the word nigga to refer to each other but will not tollerate white people using the word. I think you would have to be pretty damn naive and ignorant if you don't understand why they would never tollerate white people using it.

I take it you're not referring specifically to me there If I were black I think I'd try to refrain from using that word myself and discourage other blacks to do the same if only so it put an end to the tedious "well THEY use it themselves" excuse ignorant whites troll out to justify the use of it. I do realize however that by demonizing this, or any other word for that matter,serves only to give it even more power when used to offend. Catch 22.

[Darkon]

Check out the hypocracy by Evra...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082524/Patrice-Evra-video-using-n-word-YoutTube.html

[Alex]

Nice to know the mods have been following the discussion.....

[Darkon]

So because I'm a mod I'm not allowed to do a Bender

I assume it's been posted before then

Sorry I do at times have other matters in life that don't allow me the time to read up on a lot of pages

[Neil Young]

Isnt that itself racist/xenophobic?

Well, it's certainly culturally insensitive at the very least.

I've mentioned this before on here - I had a girlfriend from Belfast who used the N-word once in passing, when talking to friends from Belfast. They all used it to refer to a black person and for them it didn't carry racist overtones. I said that since they were in London, where it does when said by a white person, then they really needed not to say it. She (and probably the others too) wasn't racist at all but they seriously lacked awareness of how others might, indeed would, hear it.

Inevitably she reacted pretty defensively (it's really easy to get caught up in an inferred accusation) but that was it, I never heard her say it again.

It doesn't seem to me a million miles away from the issues here, if we are to give Suarez's version events any credence whatsoever. And Suarez is from a different hemisphere, not just a different city in the same country as London (or not, depending on your point of view) with a long and continuing history of prejudice. So finding him guilty of using racist language on a first offence seems contrary to common sense and , as the article Shaggy posted above argues, to natural justice as well.

[marcus50bucks]

I take it you're not referring specifically to me there If I were black I think I'd try to refrain from using that word myself and discourage other blacks to do the same if only so it put an end to the tedious "well THEY use it themselves" excuse ignorant whites troll out to justify the use of it. I do realize however that by demonizing this, or any other word for that matter,serves only to give it even more power when used to offend. Catch 22.

No mate weren't aiming that at you at all. I personally don't use it myself but have black friends that occasionally refer to each other as nigga. I would definitely educate my children not to use it and explain to them the history of the word.

[fah-q]

I read a bit about George Best calling Pele the N word in an article about Racism in Northern Ireland.

[Neil Young]

Never said it was significant.

I take it you're not referring specifically to me there If I were black I think I'd try to refrain from using that word myself and discourage other blacks to do the same if only so it put an end to the tedious "well THEY use it themselves" excuse ignorant whites troll out to justify the use of it. I do realize however that by demonizing this, or any other word for that matter,serves only to give it even more power when used to offend. Catch 22.

That, I think, is the crucial issue. As white people we can have an opinion on it but we're really not qualified to make a judgement. We don't know what it feels like to hear it from a white person and we don't know how it feels as a black person to say it. It's such a powerful word, with so many resonances, it's just something for a white person to avoid and to let black people work out for themselves what they want to do with it. Maybe it's a word they'd be better losing forever but that's certainly true for us. So they can have it and do what they want with it.

I agree, if I were black I think I'd avoid it too. But who knows? Maybe we'd feel differently if we'd been on the receiving end, directly or indirectly.

Ultimately it's about recognising and respecting cultural difference. And that brings us back to Suarez...

No mate weren't aiming that at you at all. I personally don't use it myself but have black friends that occasionally refer to each other as nigga. I would definitely educate my children not to use it and explain to them the history of the word.

[marcus50bucks]

That, I think, is the crucial issue. As white people we can have an opinion on it but we're really not qualified to make a judgement. We don't know what it feels like to hear it from a white person and we don't know how it feels as a black person to say it. It's such a powerful word, with so many resonances, it's just something for a white person to avoid and to let black people work out for themselves what they want to do with it. Maybe it's a word they'd be better losing forever but that's certainly true for us. So they can have it and do what they want with it.

I agree, if I were black I think I'd avoid it too. But who knows? Maybe we'd feel differently if we'd been on the receiving end, directly or indirectly.

Ultimately it's about recognising and respecting cultural difference. And that brings us back to Suarez...

Top post that mate.

[Exiled_red]

Is the result of this case that there are now certain words that aren't allowed to be used at all on a football pitch in any context, or is it the case that you can use these words but not in an offensive or aggressive manner? Because there seem to be mixed messages in the articles I've been reading.

If the former is the case then it should follow that any player who uses the words regardless of colour, background or context should be charged and if found guilty receive a ban.

[Vermilion]

Is the result of this case that there are now certain words that aren't allowed to be used at all on a football pitch in any context, or is it the case that you can use these words but not in an offensive or aggressive manner? Because there seem to be mixed messages in the articles I've been reading.

If the former is the case then it should follow that any player who uses the words regardless of colour, background or context should be charged and if found guilty receive a ban.

The result of this case is that the fa, as ever, will blunder their way through future investigations of any nature...judging things how they see fit..regardless of what's fair, or on evidence presented or not presented, just as they have done in the past and present.