Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Neil Young]

Pretty sure Wogs is not used for Asians in Australia and and I happy to take someones word who actually lives there.

So you think something is true and you're happy to take the word of someone who supports that view.

[Nicey]

So you think something is true and you're happy to take the word of someone who supports that view.

I dont think I am pretty sure, my best mate is from Sydney or Coffs Harbour to be precise I've been to Australia over a dozen times and I am reasonably familiar with the culture. I have never heard Wog being used in relation to Asians always Italians and Fernadinho on the ground opinion just reinforces that belief

Apologies if my previous comment came off as snide that was not my intention

[Neil Young]

It could have done but I didn't think you really meant it to.

I'm sure you and little Fernando know what you're talking about since it's really all about personal experience.

It's interesting the way the same word has different resonances for different people. Fernandinho clearly has one set of reference points while Polo has another.

Let's hope that mirrors how the whole thing kicked off between Evra and Suarez in the first place.

The other thing that's interesting is how easy it is for people to leap to conclusions and take offence when this issue is discussed. I find it a bit discomfiting myself. It's hard to have a cool discussion.

What I don't get about it though is the seeming need to take sides on the Evra allegations before we know the facts.

[Tee]

Nicey... your sig... really?? Don't feel comfortable with that, even if it 'only' means little black man.

[Fernandinho]

WOG's was definetely used, I think WOPS might have been used too as it rings a bell, but wog's was definetely used here.

[RedReet]

Well your opinion is plain wrong because for all extent and purposed it is, its a racial slur used mainly by English people to describe Irish people, some Irish people might use the word but it still does not make it any less of a racial slur, If a English person in an office said, Hey Paddy, go to the photocopying machine and make me a dozen of these, the company would have a lawsuit on there hands.

I’m Irish and being called ‘Paddy’ wouldn’t annoy me in the slightest. If it was said in good humour, I’d have no reason to be annoyed, but if it was said to get a reaction then it would work, not because I’m offended at being called a Paddy, but because the person said something they thought I’d react to. Like if I was on holiday and someone said ‘**** you Paddy’, they’d get the exact same reaction as another person who thinks I’m from another part of the UK and says ‘**** you …whatever…’.

In the office example, again I’d be annoyed, but not because I’m addressed as a Paddy, but because the person saying it is obviously trying to belittle me by refusing to call me my proper name. Again, it could be ‘Hey Paddy, ‘Hey Scouser’, ‘hey baldy’, ‘hey grumpy’ etc. and I’d be equally as annoyed.

Being a Catholic from the North being called a Fenian would be a different story and suffering from sectarianism is the closest I’ll come to understanding racism. It’s why I was trying to make the point in the John Terry thread that if someone makes a racist remark in the heat of the moment, does it automatically make them a racist. I was trying to think back to when I played football or even got in an argument and was thinking I probably said much worse than that without necessarily meaning it. I couldn’t really quantify it though because I obviously don’t know how if feels to be called a ‘black c*nt’. The closest again I could think of was again playing football and being called a Fenian cunt, a Taig ****** etc which was quite common against certain opposition. To be fair I probably gave as good as I got, so does that make me a bigot despite the fact half my family are protestant as are a lot of my friends?

[fah-q]

My cousins that emigrated to Australia say the same, they were definitely called both Wop and Wog.

Also I think people have started to become confused between Racism and Xenophobia.

[GTi]

I’m Irish and being called ‘Paddy’ wouldn’t annoy me in the slightest. If it was said in good humour, I’d have no reason to be annoyed, but if it was said to get a reaction then it would work, not because I’m offended at being called a Paddy, but because the person said something they thought I’d react to. Like if I was on holiday and someone said ‘**** you Paddy’, they’d get the exact same reaction as another person who thinks I’m from another part of the UK and says ‘**** you …whatever…’.

In the office example, again I’d be annoyed, but not because I’m addressed as a Paddy, but because the person saying it is obviously trying to belittle me by refusing to call me my proper name. Again, it could be ‘Hey Paddy, ‘Hey Scouser’, ‘hey baldy’, ‘hey grumpy’ etc. and I’d be equally as annoyed.

Being a Catholic from the North being called a Fenian would be a different story and suffering from sectarianism is the closest I’ll come to understanding racism. It’s why I was trying to make the point in the John Terry thread that if someone makes a racist remark in the heat of the moment, does it automatically make them a racist. I was trying to think back to when I played football or even got in an argument and was thinking I probably said much worse than that without necessarily meaning it. I couldn’t really quantify it though because I obviously don’t know how if feels to be called a ‘black c*nt’. The closest again I could think of was again playing football and being called a Fenian cunt, a Taig ****** etc which was quite common against certain opposition. To be fair I probably gave as good as I got, so does that make me a bigot despite the fact half my family are protestant as are a lot of my friends?

My mates bald and i call him curly. He doenst have a problem with it.

[Alex]

I have a friend from Newcastle, and we all call him Paddy. Once some woman asked him if he was Irish and it stuck

[Roboklopp]

So can someone address my example properly rather than just kicking off pointlessly.

Is asked my mate about the term "wog" & he said it's pretty commonly used in Oz & not considered offensive. That could well be a misrepresentation but it's what was said.

[ronanm]

If you use any terms which might be acceptable to some but may offend others then don't use the term.

[Helios Creed]

Because mostly it refers to the food not the people. You dont hear people saying OHHHH you know what .. I really fancy a ****

also the P word is more of a hate word than the c version e.g. it can be combined with Out or Bashing whereas the c word is not used in such a detestable way, its more patronising, which is possibly what Suarez is guilty of.

I'm glad that both are falling into disuse as people become more enlightened. It used to drive me crazy trying to explain that just because you don't mean the word in a bad way, the fact that you don't say it when you are actually in the establishment or in front of colleagues of that race means that deep down you know there is something wrong with using it.

[Alex]

Is there a East/West divide in Australia given its size? Could be a regional thing.

[Kenneth]

My cousins that emigrated to Australia say the same, they were definitely called both Wop and Wog.

Also I think people have started to become confused between Racism and Xenophobia.

True. But it's not clear why prejudice based on race is worse than prejudice based on nationality. One I now hugely stigmatised, one regarded as more of a joke.

[Helios Creed]

I don't think "Brit" has ever been used by any racist groups as an offensive term during their "campaigns".

Like it or not, at some point the p word became synonymous with racist groups in this country. It therefore eventually became wrong for people to simply use it as a general term, and rightly so. Once a word has hate filled and racial connotations attributed to it then I don't know why anyone (other than hate filled racists) would want to use it anyway. Same with the N word.

Sorry if that makes me a patronising white liberal scamp

again, as I tried to explain to a particularly obtuse Scottish girl who was saying that the P word was just an abbreviation and was no worse than being described as a Scot, somehow your granny having it written on her wall in **** does make it different.