Kenny isn't what we need

[Exiled_red]

And didnt Adam, Downings and Hendersons stats of last season show they created more goal-scoring opportunities than Maxi (I think they did if I remember correctly)

Didn't Maxi have some crazy stat towards the end of the last season (it may have been broken in the last month or so) that he was the player in the league who had created the most chances without getting an assist?

I have a genuine question about this - I wonder what quality of chances those players are creating. It is a question MattShark has bought up before. The ones that stick in my mind seem pretty good (i.e. Carroll against Swansea) but I'm not sure I have a coherent picture of whether we are overall making more clear cut or half chances than other teams.

I do think that the positioning of players in the box is playing a part though. Carroll in particular never seems to be there for the tap in.

It is however worth people remembering how it went when we tried to bed in Crouch. It worked out pretty well in the end though and I wonder if a similar situation is playing out now.

Shaggy posted some an article with some stats about opta 'clear cut changes' a while back obviously their definition of a 'clear cut chance' may be different from ours but assuming it is a consistent view across all teams (as it should be) it suggested that we were creating the 3rd most 'clear cut chances' of anyone in the league (after the two Manc clubs) but were well down on list in terms of conerting these chances into goals.

It would be interesting to see how such stats compare for this season and the second half of last season.

[Neil Young]

or a

Perhaps so but I was feeling hungry and wanted an ice cream when I posted that.

Presumably you aren't feeling hungry.

[Lecter]

I have a genuine question about this - I wonder what quality of chances those players are creating. It is a question MattShark has bought up before. The ones that stick in my mind seem pretty good (i.e. Carroll against Swansea) but I'm not sure I have a coherent picture of whether we are overall making more clear cut or half chances than other teams.

I do think that the positioning of players in the box is playing a part though. Carroll in particular never seems to be there for the tap in.

It is however worth people remembering how it went when we tried to bed in Crouch. It worked out pretty well in the end though and I wonder if a similar situation is playing out now.

There must be a base "goal-scoring description" the stattos use in order to collate the stuff

Even looking at the stats posted previously (in terms of shots at goal) we are high up the table but once again low on the conversion

Its plain for me to see that we are creating chances that should be easily finished off

However they arent being finished off

now Arn will blame formation, Charlie Adam, Andy Carroll etc.. but for me all those missing chances should be holding their heads in shame. I must say I've been amazed at Suarez's conversion rate, last season I had a couple of nagging doubts about his finishing and that has only been re-enforced by his woeful performance in front of goal this season

I dont think that has anything to do with 4-4-2, Charlie Adam or Andy Carroll it is solely down to Suarez

Players have to take responsibility, fine if he was starved of service and not getting any chances then I could sympathise with him, but hes not

Even with lower expectations of someone like Carroll I'd expect him to be taking more of the chances than he actually has

[RichC]

Saurez since he's been with us has scored 1 in every 2.45 games, not a bad record in front of goal but the positions he gets himself into he should be a lot closer to 1.5 per game for us.

* based on 11 goals in 27 games for us since Jan

[dww]

Shaggy posted some an article with some stats about opta 'clear cut changes' a while back obviously their definition of a 'clear cut chance' may be different from ours but assuming it is a consistent view across all teams (as it should be) it suggested that we were creating the 3rd most 'clear cut chances' of anyone in the league (after the two Manc clubs) but were well down on list in terms of conerting these chances into goals.

It would be interesting to see how such stats compare for this season and the second half of last season.

There must be a base "goal-scoring description" the stattos use in order to collate the stuff

Even looking at the stats posted previously (in terms of shots at goal) we are high up the table but once again low on the conversion

Its plain for me to see that we are creating chances that should be easily finished off

However they arent being finished off

now Arn will blame formation, Charlie Adam, Andy Carroll etc.. but for me all those missing chances should be holding their heads in shame. I must say I've been amazed at Suarez's conversion rate, last season I had a couple of nagging doubts about his finishing and that has only been re-enforced by his woeful performance in front of goal this season

I dont think that has anything to do with 4-4-2, Charlie Adam or Andy Carroll it is solely down to Suarez

Players have to take responsibility, fine if he was starved of service and not getting any chances then I could sympathise with him, but hes not

Even with lower expectations of someone like Carroll I'd expect him to be taking more of the chances than he actually has

Fair points.

[Lecter]

Of course it matters when you look at how they created the chances. Downing for example didn't do it thanks to any pass and move football.

Villa got the best out of Downing because they knew he is a very limited player. Play in a certain way, that means long balls from the back and a big strong target in the box and you get the best out of him.

Play pass and move style and you don't get the best out of him. We play pass and move style.

Play Maxi in a pass and move style team and you get the best out of him.

If we want to get the best out of Downing then we must play Houllier or MoN style of football.

Downings performance has nothing to do with our style of play/or formation imo

Absolutely nothing

His failings are simple, he looks unable or unwilling to do what is being asked of him (consistantly get passed the defender and put balls into the box)

He hasnt done this anywhere near enough in recent games, after a very promising start to his career at the club

The fact that in the early games he showed he can contribute and play well within our system doesnt tally with your claims above

His levels have dropped off/dropped back and hes been far less effective in recent weeks

[Lecter]

Saurez since he's been with us has scored 1 in every 2.45 games, not a bad record in front of goal but the positions he gets himself into he should be a lot closer to 1.5 per game for us.

* based on 11 goals in 27 games for us since Jan

If Rush had the chances that Suarez has had he'd be getting a couple of goals a game

Seriously I remember a couple of years back they did a thing on Sky with chances /conversion rates

Henry & Van Nistelrooy had high 20's / low 30's percentages

They reviewed all the available archive live footage they had of Rush and guestimated that his conversion rate was about 40%

Now this weekend they had Suarez's conversion rate and I think it was 11%

[Exiled_red]

There must be a base "goal-scoring description" the stattos use in order to collate the stuff

Even looking at the stats posted previously (in terms of shots at goal) we are high up the table but once again low on the conversion

Its plain for me to see that we are creating chances that should be easily finished off

However they arent being finished off

now Arn will blame formation, Charlie Adam, Andy Carroll etc.. but for me all those missing chances should be holding their heads in shame. I must say I've been amazed at Suarez's conversion rate, last season I had a couple of nagging doubts about his finishing and that has only been re-enforced by his woeful performance in front of goal this season

I dont think that has anything to do with 4-4-2, Charlie Adam or Andy Carroll it is solely down to Suarez

Players have to take responsibility, fine if he was starved of service and not getting any chances then I could sympathise with him, but hes not

Even with lower expectations of someone like Carroll I'd expect him to be taking more of the chances than he actually has

Did anyone see him at Ajax? He had a great goalscoring record there 111 goals in 159 games including 49 goals in 48 games in the 2009-10 season.

Was he more prolific at Ajax in terms of converting chances, or was he missing the same fraction there but was just getting more chances?

[RichC]

If Rush had the chances that Suarez has had he'd be getting a couple of goals a game

Seriously I remember a couple of years back they did a thing on Sky with chances /conversion rates

Henry & Van Nistelrooy had high 20's / low 30's percentages

They reviewed all the available archive live footage they had of Rush and guestimated that his conversion rate was about 40%

Now this weekend they had Suarez's conversion rate and I think it was 11%

ahhh I agree about Rushie, he was just a phenom in front of goal he really was but if Luis can just improve a bit we'd have a really dangerous goal scorer, at the moment he's decent but no more than that infront of goal.

I really do think that's our main issue, finishing our chances as for me the side itself as far better overall than the past two seasons we just need to add the goals to it.

I seem to remember when Rafa came in it was about shoring the back up first (which took time) then working on improving our goal getting ability - I think we're better at the back than last season overall and we're certainly creating more in the final 3rd than the prior two seasons it's now about getting the ball in the back of the net.

[Roboklopp]

My feeling for what it's worth is that it isn't solely finishing - I think the midfield players (and the forward who isn't Suarez when we play one) are not making as good runs into the box to finish off or set up a better chance. Maxi and Kuyt last season did this exceptionally well. This season Kuyt has been less effective (and often too deep for my money) and Downing and Henderson haven't clicked in this department.

I'm not sure that we are so far away from being a very good team but sometime the last step is the hardest to make.

I do think Adam is a problem but more in terms of how we have let game situations slip. The problem can be (and I guess often is) over emphasised but I do think it remains an issue.

Aye.

I have a genuine question about this - I wonder what quality of chances those players are creating. It is a question MattShark has bought up before. The ones that stick in my mind seem pretty good (i.e. Carroll against Swansea) but I'm not sure I have a coherent picture of whether we are overall making more clear cut or half chances than other teams.

I do think that the positioning of players in the box is playing a part though. Carroll in particular never seems to be there for the tap in.

It is however worth people remembering how it went when we tried to bed in Crouch. It worked out pretty well in the end though and I wonder if a similar situation is playing out now.

Not saying I disagree with you, but Crouch's contribution even during his bedding in barren patch was obvious.

[Lecter]

Did anyone see him at Ajax? He had a great goalscoring record there 111 goals in 159 games including 49 goals in 48 games in the 2009-10 season.

Was he more prolific at Ajax in terms of converting chances, or was he missing the same fraction there but was just getting more chances?

He scored ****loads at Ajax

Maybe thats why I'm disappointed with his finishing, my expectation levels were much greater and I have been surprised by his poor finishing

11% isnt a great conversion rate (not when you look at Henry/Van Nistelrooy getting high 20's/lows 30's in terms of percentages)

[Lecter]

Stats from Anfield Index

[Craig_H]

That graphic sums it up really. Downing's creating a similar number of chances to the other wingers. Suarez is converting a much lower percentage of chances than the others do.

[Neil Young]

At last! It took a while but we've finally found a way to use statistics to blame easily our best player this season for not winning enough games.

Bizarre.

[Roboklopp]

Very interesting about Rushie. Wonder how Torres (with us) & Shearer wouldve done.

Tempted to think Luis mustve been more clinical at Ajax. Just typical of s that now we have number 7 worth the shirt, we lack the striker to go with him!