Lucas

[Havors]

thought so.....those stats are absolute bollocks!!!

the onl thing they prove is that lucas has the 4th best passing percentage out of those 5 and also he played **** loads of games .......lets look at the evidence.

case study1
Darren fletcher v Lucas leiva
fletcher played 30 games = 57.5 passes per game
lucas played 35 games = 52.34 passes per game

if fletcher had played 5 more games he would be in top 3

case sudy 2
Scott parker v Lucas leiva
Parker played 18 games = 83.72 passes per game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyway you see my point.

All this proves is lucas plays a lot.......well done matt, hardly needed a statiscian for that.


I would do the same for tackling to, but think i have proved my point

Are we talking completed passes here?? i reckon the centre backs or full backs have higher pass completion than lucas

[red g]

Are we talking completed passes here?? i reckon the centre backs or full backs have higher pass completion than lucas

would you like the stats on that

[danperkins]

Haha this has been fun now i'm off to the gym to perv on some chicks although i might have to look into the vital statistics before i judge how sexy they are , red g is my hero

[Mattshark]

thought so.....those stats are absolute bollocks!!!

the onl thing they prove is that lucas has the 4th best passing percentage out of those 5 and also he played **** loads of games .......lets look at the evidence.

Total passing list

1 Barry Ferguson Birmingham City 2168
2 Javier Mascherano Liverpool 2115
3 Frank Lampard Chelsea 1923
4 John Terry Chelsea 1906
5 Lucas Leiva Liverpool 1832
6 Francesc Fabregas Arsenal 1784
7 Gareth Barry Manchester City 1772
8 Jamie Carragher Liverpool 1753
9 Tom Huddlestone Tottenham Hotspur 1727
10 Darren Fletcher Manchester United 1725
11 Steven Gerrard Liverpool 1702
12 Patrice Evra Manchester United 1643
13 Michael Ballack Chelsea 1627
14 Paul Scholes Manchester United 1616
15 Bacary Sagna Arsenal 1605
16 Dirk Kuyt Liverpool 1558
17 Vasiriki Abou Diaby Arsenal 1545
18 Michael Carrick Manchester United 1524
19 James Milner Aston Villa 1514
20 Scott Parker West Ham United 1507


case study1
Darren fletcher v Lucas leiva
fletcher played 30 games = 57.5 passes per game
lucas played 35 games = 52.34 passes per game

if fletcher had played 5 more games he would be in top 3

case sudy 2
Scott parker v Lucas leiva
Parker played 18 games = 83.72 passes per game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyway you see my point.

All this proves is lucas plays a lot.......well done matt, hardly needed a statiscian for that.


I would do the same for tackling to, but think i have proved my point

So? Firstly you are looking at one aspect, volume.
Secondly Scott Parker played 29 games in the league last season so that would be 51 passes per game.
That still doesn't mean Lucas was not passing well, as he has been accused of, passing accurately, which he has been accused of, not tackling, which he has been accused of.

So no you don't have to be statictican but you have to be accurate and you have to be contextual. You are neither.

[Mattshark]

Are we talking completed passes here?? i reckon the centre backs or full backs have higher pass completion than lucas

No he is only talking volume.

[JohnDoe]

The amount of passes are irrelevant.

If Lucas gets the ball, sees the opposition player getting near him, ****s himself, and passes back to Reina or Skrtel, is that a +1? Does this warrant anything? Does this even matter?

Football is a game, best judged with your pair of eyes. My pair of eyes say, Lucas isn't very good.

[Mattshark]

oh and here is the list of top 10 fannies in tackles ( tackles lost)

1 Mohamed Diamé Wigan Athletic 51
2 Fabrice Muamba Bolton Wanderers 50
3 Lucas Leiva Liverpool 46
4 Stilian Petrov Aston Villa 34
5 Javier Mascherano Liverpool 34
6 Hendry Thomas Wigan Athletic 34
7 Radoslav Kovac West Ham United 33
8 Scott Dann Birmingham City 32
9 Lorik Cana Sunderland 31
10 Wilson Palacios


weird how lucas comes near top of that as well

So does Mascherano. What is you point? If you make a lot of tackles you are going to have a higher volume of failed tackles. Again, well done at failing context.

[Fernandinho]

The amount of passes are irrelevant.

If Lucas gets the ball, sees the opposition player getting near him, ****s himself, and passes back to Reina or Skrtel, is that a +1? Does this warrant anything? Does this even matter?

Football is a game, best judged with your pair of eyes. My pair of eyes say, Lucas isn't very good.

thankyou.

I hate this crap about pass percentage. If every footballer in the game played mostly safe passes we wouldn't see goals. Players like Aquilani and Gerrard who like to get the ball and move it swift quick thinking movements are the kinds of players who create little openings. This may mean they have a low percentage of passes but it does mean they create openings and take the team forward.

[Mattshark]

The amount of passes are irrelevant.

If Lucas gets the ball, sees the opposition player getting near him, ****s himself, and passes back to Reina or Skrtel, is that a +1? Does this warrant anything? Does this even matter?

Football is a game, best judged with your pair of eyes. My pair of eyes say, Lucas isn't very good.

Not really, how you interpret what you see is subject to many confounding factors that give a large amount of bias and inaccuracy.

[red g]

So? Firstly you are looking at one aspect, volume.
Secondly Scott Parker played 29 games in the league last season so that would be 51 passes per game.
That still doesn't mean Lucas was not passing well, as he has been accused of, passing accurately, which he has been accused of, not tackling, which he has been accused of.

So no you don't have to be statictican but you have to be accurate and you have to be contextual. You are neither.

but thats all you have been judging on with those opta stats is volume to??

here is a list of succesful passes then,........

1 Javier Mascherano Liverpool 1751
2 Barry Ferguson Birmingham City 1730
3 John Terry Chelsea 1664
4 Lucas Leiva Liverpool 1525
5 Frank Lampard Chelsea 1499
6 Darren Fletcher Manchester United 1442
7 Paul Scholes Manchester United 1442
8 Francesc Fabregas Arsenal 1385
9 Michael Ballack Chelsea 1379
10 Jamie Carragher Liverpool 1352


once again doesnt have percentages, but pretty sure that JC's passing rate will be quite high as he keeps it so simple.

[Mattshark]

thankyou.

I hate this crap about pass percentage. If every footballer in the game played mostly safe passes we wouldn't see goals. Players like Aquilani and Gerrard who like to get the ball and move it swift quick thinking movements are the kinds of players who create little openings. This may mean they have a low percentage of passes but it does mean they create openings and take the team forward.

Yes but do you want your defensive midfielder giving the ball away all the time?

[Fernandinho]

but thats all you have been judging on with those opta stats is volume to??

here is a list of succesful passes then,........

1 Javier Mascherano Liverpool 1751
2 Barry Ferguson Birmingham City 1730
3 John Terry Chelsea 1664
4 Lucas Leiva Liverpool 1525
5 Frank Lampard Chelsea 1499
6 Darren Fletcher Manchester United 1442
7 Paul Scholes Manchester United 1442
8 Francesc Fabregas Arsenal 1385
9 Michael Ballack Chelsea 1379
10 Jamie Carragher Liverpool 1352


once again doesnt have percentages, but pretty sure that JC's passing rate will be quite high as he keeps it so simple.

a joke?

[red g]

Not really, how you interpret what you see is subject to many confounding factors that give a large amount of bias and inaccuracy

I know popular opinion doesnt count but if most people on here dont particularly rate Lucas maybe just maybe you are the one who is showing the bias??

[Fernandinho]

couldnt be

[Mattshark]

but thats all you have been judging on with those opta stats is volume to??

here is a list of succesful passes then,........

1 Javier Mascherano Liverpool 1751
2 Barry Ferguson Birmingham City 1730
3 John Terry Chelsea 1664
4 Lucas Leiva Liverpool 1525
5 Frank Lampard Chelsea 1499
6 Darren Fletcher Manchester United 1442
7 Paul Scholes Manchester United 1442
8 Francesc Fabregas Arsenal 1385
9 Michael Ballack Chelsea 1379
10 Jamie Carragher Liverpool 1352


once again doesnt have percentages, but pretty sure that JC's passing rate will be quite high as he keeps it so simple.

Which you would hope so! You don't want you more defensive players gocing the ball away do you.
No, Lucas's pass accuracy is also very good. In his position tackling and passing are the two stats that you want high.
I have also said to use it in context and offer the guardian chalkboard to do that.