Lucas

[RichC]

How can he be a failed box to box midfielder, when he never played that role for us? When or how did he 'fail' then?
And do you remember Didi Hamann? Lucas is doing the same job, albeit not to that same standard yet. But then, Hamann wasnt doing it for us at the age of 23 either.

I dont know which top class and established DMs, who dont have the weaknesses you think Lucas does, that we could have bought for £5m.

Any ideas?

Spot on - Rafa changed him to be a DM, he came from Brazil after being the youngest every winner of the golden ball in Brazil!

DanP - Lucas was an excellent signing for the money we paid for him, remember he is still only 23, played over 80 games for us and and will get better and better - we'd be mad to even entertain getting rid unless a crazy offer came in.

[RedReet]

Eh No.

Lucas is a failed box to box midfielder turned into a DM. Rafa obviously looked at Lucas's attributes and decided that DM was a better position for the lad, it minimized the mistakes he was making as his role was more workmanlike and less technical, and to be fair to Rafa he was correct in changing Lucas's whole game.

He has a good work ethic and keeps things simple. He has improved for LFC no doubts but IMO in the long term is not good enough to be a starter if we want to challenge for things. For me Lucas doesn't do enough in the centre of the park, he is slow,rash, naive and has a tendency to disappear in games. I do not trust him to protect our back four on a regular or permanent basis.

I do think Lucas has been good in the last 2 games though. Credit where credit is due. But IMO he is and never will be good enough if we want to get back up the table and compete at the highest level. I don't think its a coincidence that the likes of Stoke are the only ones looking at him, maybe some average Italian teams too last season apparently.

Here we go again. We don’t play with a ‘box-to-box’ midfielder FFS. He may have be bought and that’s how he played but to fit him in our system he has to be disciplined in the centre of the park. He can’t be considered a failure for doing as the manager asks and growing into the position he is asked to play. Xabi was also made to change his style to fit our system and he left a more complete player.

[danperkins]

How can he be a failed box to box midfielder, when he never played that role for us? When or how did he 'fail' then?

And do you remember Didi Hamann? Lucas is doing the same job, albeit not to that same standard yet. But then, Hamann wasnt doing it for us at the age of 23 either.

I dont know which top class and established DMs, who dont have the weaknesses you think Lucas does, that we could have bought for £5m.

Any ideas?

One word "Training" , Rafa obviously decided by looking at him in training that his role had to be changed, big difference playing the way Lucas did in Brazil and coping with the Premier League.

I am no Rafa fan but Rafa improve Lucas by changing the way he plays. And i'm not going to even bother to compare Lucas to Didi, its just not happening.

Top class or established and 5 million don't come into the same bracket. And Lucas wasn't bought a DM mate. Hence Rafa saying when he originally signed him "I am looking forward to seeing him score goals", he was bought as a box to box and his role was clearly changed to suit his attributes playing in the Premier League. And thats not my opinion that is obviously what has happened.

[danperkins]

Spot on - Rafa changed him to be a DM, he came from Brazil after being the youngest every winner of the golden ball in Brazil!

DanP - Lucas was an excellent signing for the money we paid for him, remember he is still only 23, played over 80 games for us and and will get better and better - we'd be mad to even entertain getting rid unless a crazy offer came in.

Each to their own opinion

IMO he is average but better than Poulsen,Jovo,Konch thus far.

[RedReet]

How can he be a failed box to box midfielder, when he never played that role for us? When or how did he 'fail' then?

And do you remember Didi Hamann? Lucas is doing the same job, albeit not to that same standard yet. But then, Hamann wasnt doing it for us at the age of 23 either.

I dont know which top class and established DMs, who dont have the weaknesses you think Lucas does, that we could have bought for £5m.

Any ideas?

Missed that.

This was actually already discussed in this thread, but has since been deleted.

[Fredo]

Eh No.

Lucas is a failed box to box midfielder turned into a DM. Rafa obviously looked at Lucas's attributes and decided that DM was a better position for the lad, it minimized the mistakes he was making as his role was more workmanlike and less technical, and to be fair to Rafa he was correct in changing Lucas's whole game.

He has a good work ethic and keeps things simple. He has improved for LFC no doubts but IMO in the long term is not good enough to be a starter if we want to challenge for things. For me Lucas doesn't do enough in the centre of the park, he is slow,rash, naive and has a tendency to disappear in games. I do not trust him to protect our back four on a regular or permanent basis.

I do think Lucas has been good in the last 2 games though. Credit where credit is due. But IMO he is and never will be good enough if we want to get back up the table and compete at the highest level. I don't think its a coincidence that the likes of Stoke are the only ones looking at him, maybe some average Italian teams too last season apparently.

Edited smart arse, can't help loading times

Not so sure you've edited this correctly.

[danperkins]

Here we go again. We don’t play with a ‘box-to-box’ midfielder FFS. He may have be bought and that’s how he played but to fit him in our system he has to be disciplined in the centre of the park. He can’t be considered a failure for doing as the manager asks and growing into the position he is asked to play. Xabi was also made to change his style to fit our system and he left a more complete player.

Jesus i never said we did but is it not fair to say that Lucas's style of play for Gremio is totally different to the way he plays for LFC in the premier league?

[RichC]

One word "Training" , Rafa obviously decided by looking at him in training that his role had to be changed, big difference playing the way Lucas did in Brazil and coping with the Premier League.

I am no Rafa fan but Rafa improve Lucas by changing the way he plays. And i'm not going to even bother to compare Lucas to Didi, its just not happening.

Top class or established and 5 million don't come into the same bracket. And Lucas wasn't bought a DM mate. Hence Rafa saying when he originally signed him "I am looking forward to seeing him score goals", he was bought as a box to box and his role was clearly changed to suit his attributes playing in the Premier League. And thats not my opinion that is obviously what has happened.

Under Rafa we played a destroyer (Masch) and a holding MF/playmaker (Alonso) our box to box mF who would have been Stevie was moved up the pitch to play off Nando - we don't play that way hence he was changed to fit the system we were using.

Who's to say how he'd do if we changed our tactics to suit a box to box midfielder.

[Craig_H]

One word "Training" , Rafa obviously decided by looking at him in training that his role had to be changed, big difference playing the way Lucas did in Brazil and coping with the Premier League.

I am no Rafa fan but Rafa improve Lucas by changing the way he plays. And i'm not going to even bother to compare Lucas to Didi, its just not happening.

Top class or established and 5 million don't come into the same bracket. And Lucas wasn't bought a DM mate. Hence Rafa saying when he originally signed him "I am looking forward to seeing him score goals", he was bought as a box to box and his role was clearly changed to suit his attributes playing in the Premier League. And thats not my opinion that is obviously what has happened.

That's ****ing beautiful

So he changed his role off the back of a few training sessions, without actually trying him in a game.

And do you think clubs commit £5m on someone they havent scouted sufficiently enough to have an idea on whether they can do the job, and to instantly can their best laid plans as soon as the lad arrives at Melwood?

I love you dan, i really do

[RedReet]

One word "Training" , Rafa obviously decided by looking at him in training that his role had to be changed, big difference playing the way Lucas did in Brazil and coping with the Premier League.

I am no Rafa fan but Rafa improve Lucas by changing the way he plays. And i'm not going to even bother to compare Lucas to Didi, its just not happening.

Top class or established and 5 million don't come into the same bracket. And Lucas wasn't bought a DM mate. Hence Rafa saying when he originally signed him "I am looking forward to seeing him score goals", he was bought as a box to box and his role was clearly changed to suit his attributes playing in the Premier League. And thats not my opinion that is obviously what has happened.

So Rafa took the best player from South America at the time, improved him further, and he’s still ****? Is that what you are saying?

[danperkins]

Not so sure you've edited this correctly.

I do think Lucas has been good in the last 2 games though. Credit where credit is due. But IMO he is and never will be good enough if we want to get back up the table and compete at the highest level. I don't think its a coincidence that the likes of Stoke are the only ones looking at him, maybe some average Italian teams too last season apparently.

Or maybe you didn't you pick the right edit Nige

[Craig_H]

So Rafa took the best player from South America at the time, improved him further, and he’s still ****? Is that what you are saying?

Dan dan, the contradiction man

[dom9]

I was correct to back him after the Tottenham defeat on the first day of last season. Hes always just been a scapegoat.

Would you like a prize,or is self-congratulation enough?

[Maxiedge]

While Lucas is playing pretty well, and has done for almost a year, he is ****e

He's a bit of a soft touch really. His presence in the team has come hand in hand with our fall from grace.

[Craig_H]

He's a bit of a soft touch really. His presence in the team has come hand in hand with our fall from grace.

Same as Torres, then.

Maybe the fall from grace comes hand in hand with Hicks and Gillett's ownership?