Lucas

[RedReet]

And my point was that if he was that good at bursting forward and being a box to box, well then surely Rafa would have made him play this way instead of sitting deep and keeping it as simple as possible?

Rafa's quotes: "I am looking forward to seeing him score goals" , so what role does that suggest? Surely not the role of a DM who sits deep and keeps things as simple as possible, and doesn't get forward? hey i'm going on quotes from Player and manager.

IMO and going on Rafa's and Lucas's comments, Lucas was bought for a type of role, a more attacking holding midfielder so to speak (box to box) but it seems, actually no it happened. That Rafa changed his role
and for the better as it turned out.

And Lucas has played 6 or 7 times for Brazil, 3 or 4 friendlies and one game that i know of that Brazil had already qualified. Hardly a regular. Sure titans like Julio Baptista have played nearly 50 times for Brazil.

But if Rafa wanted this box-to-box midfielder, why not play Gerrard there? I thought that was the whole problem, Gerrard wasn’t disciplined enough to hold his position, so why allow Lucas to play and rampage forward at will. I don’t know, maybe when Rafa signed Lucas he did have plans to give him licence to attack. That was when we were still playing 442 however. By the time Lucas was really pushing for a first team place we were then playing our current 4231 formation with no space for a BTB midfielder, so surely it would make more sense to train him for one of the disciplined CM positions? If you say play him in Gerrard’s position (2nd striker), then you’d have to consider the same argument that he’s a failed BTB midfielder because he’s now playing as a second striker.

[RedReet]

A fair post mate, even if we have contrasting views i'm more than happy to agree to disagree with regards Lucas

P.S. Lucas has been good last 2 games to be fair to the lad, lets hope that continues against Chelsea, dunno if i can take us getting our asses handed to us

Ha ha, fair enough. I'll just put you on ignore next time he has a nightmare.

[danperkins]

But if Rafa wanted this box-to-box midfielder, why not play Gerrard there? I thought that was the whole problem, Gerrard wasn’t disciplined enough to hold his position, so why allow Lucas to play and rampage forward at will. I don’t know, maybe when Rafa signed Lucas he did have plans to give him licence to attack. That was when we were still playing 442 however. By the time Lucas was really pushing for a first team place we were then playing our current 4231 formation with no space for a BTB midfielder, so surely it would make more sense to train him for one of the disciplined CM positions? If you say play him in Gerrard’s position (2nd striker), then you’d have to consider the same argument that he’s a failed BTB midfielder because he’s now playing as a second striker.

Mate basing my opinion on comments from Rafa when he signed him and comments from Lucas about his own attributes as a player and what he needs to improve on.

Plus the competitive and contrasting nature of the league as oppose to the likes of Serie A in Brazil. I don't know what went on behind closed doors or training sessions but Lucas was bought to play a particular way, clearly wasn't working and his role and the way he plays is completely different to how it was previously.

Like i said if he was that good at attacking surely at this stage of the game we would he seen it happen, players and manager have come on gone and still no sign of Lucas been given this attacking role that he was bought for, maybe at LFC they have realised that his game is suited much more to the way he is playing now and has played for suite some time now thanks to Rafa.

P.S. Prob best for us to knock this on the head, you have your opinion and i have mine, you seem very balanced and reasonable in your opinions and thats all good with me mate

[danperkins]

Ha ha, fair enough. I'll just put you on ignore next time he has a nightmare.

[Redspin]

Robbie Savage is an just there for comedic value, and i think Brazilian midfielders have changed over recent years, especially with the likes of Dunga in charge, when people hear "Brazil Football" they associate flair,craft,skill etc which are none of the attributes Lucas has. I've also heard many saying he is the most "UnBrazilan Brazilian they've seen" , someone said it very recently too on tv.

Brazil haven't won World Cup since 2002 because the European teams are better defensively and more solid. Dunga has tried to change Brazil and with likes of Gilberto,Melo etc tried to put some steel and get a solid work ethic into them, hasn't worked just yet but the way Brazil play the game of football has dramatically changed.

P.S. I just realized i went on a weird rant there, meh!

So some muppet on TV says that he's an un-Brazilian Brazilian and that makes it true does it? And if you don't think he has flair, craft and skill, then I don't think you've ever seen him play. As he has got older he is now more or less a regular in the Brazil squad and his appearances for them are increasing as time goes on, not decreasing, which one would expect if he had no flair, craft or skill or wasn't improving as a player. But then what does the Brazil manager know compared with an Internet warrior with an agenda who takes as gospel the blathering of TV pundits?

[Fredo]

So some muppet on TV says that he's an un-Brazilian Brazilian and that makes it true does it? And if you don't think he has flair, craft and skill, then I don't think you've ever seen him play. As he has got older he is now more or less a regular in the Brazil squad and his appearances for them are increasing as time goes on, not decreasing, which one would expect if he had no flair, craft or skill or wasn't improving as a player. But then what does the Brazil manager know compared with an Internet warrior with an agenda who takes as gospel the blathering of TV pundits?

Not 'some muppet' mate but Robbie, Robbie Savage.

[RedReet]

Mate basing my opinion on comments from Rafa when he signed him and comments from Lucas about his own attributes as a player and what he needs to improve on.

Plus the competitive and contrasting nature of the league as oppose to the likes of Serie A in Brazil. I don't know what went on behind closed doors or training sessions but Lucas was bought to play a particular way, clearly wasn't working and his role and the way he plays is completely different to how it was previously.

Like i said if he was that good at attacking surely at this stage of the game we would he seen it happen, players and manager have come on gone and still no sign of Lucas been given this attacking role that he was bought for, maybe at LFC they have realised that his game is suited much more to the way he is playing now and has played for suite some time now thanks to Rafa.

P.S. Prob best for us to knock this on the head, you have your opinion and i have mine, you seem very balanced and reasonable in your opinions and thats all good with me mate

Deal. My head is ****ing sore anyway.

[danperkins]

So some muppet on TV says that he's an un-Brazilian Brazilian and that makes it true does it? And if you don't think he has flair, craft and skill, then I don't think you've ever seen him play. As he has got older he is now more or less a regular in the Brazil squad and his appearances for them are increasing as time goes on, not decreasing, which one would expect if he had no flair, craft or skill or wasn't improving as a player. But then what does the Brazil manager know compared with an Internet warrior with an agenda who takes as gospel the blathering of TV pundits?

Holy Balls what a post

I wasn't going to reply after having a long but reasonable debate with redreet, but sure i couldn't resist, firstly no i didn't say anyone that said anything on tv made it true, i was just stating what someone said.

Secondly Lucas with Flair/Skill & Craft are you for real?? Seriously get out of town with that **** sure he has qualities as a player but certainly none of them. Fair enough if your a Lucas fan but to saying he has flair/craft and skill is a epic lie.

And finally, Lucas has played 6 or 7 times for Brazil you clown, mostly in friendlies and one or two games where they have already qualified. So now he is a regular is he? Agenda my bollox, i'm stating an opinion like like you are, at least mine is slightest more realistic than that confrontational drivel you just posted.

I am not going to reply to you again, you obviously need to sort out some anger problems, and i don't wanna waste my time on EST replying back to people picking just blatantly picking my username and trying to start trouble. Have a good day senor and bestof luck with that massive stick stuck up your hole.

[barnes10]

Thought lucas did a lot to change the game last night. Very much like didi in that his work goes largely unnoticed.

Absolutely Miles better than Poulsen but that much is obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes.

[Armchairkopite]

Lucas is developing very nicely

[Angryred]

Just don't understand the signing of Poulsen when we had Lucas to take care of that role albeit not the best we've had previously but surely someone efficient enough.
While Lucas taking care of the midfield, he allowed others to dictate the tempo of the game ala Meireles (I like this guy more & more each time I see him play) & Gerrard.
Poulsen is another Danish flop alongside that defender we had under Souness. He's just in the way of Shelvey & others to playing regularly & learning the trade from Gerrard & co.

[Rich]

Just don't understand the signing of Poulsen when we had Lucas to take care of that role albeit not the best we've had previously but surely someone efficient enough.
While Lucas taking care of the midfield, he allowed others to dictate the tempo of the game ala Meireles (I like this guy more & more each time I see him play) & Gerrard.
Poulsen is another Danish flop alongside that defender we had under Souness. He's just in the way of Shelvey & others to playing regularly & learning the trade from Gerrard & co.

It's because Hodgson thought he could flog Lucas...

[barnes10]

in fairness i think poulsen, on paper and assuming he's settled, offers a bit more than lucas at this point.

however, lucas is on the up, poulsen is on his way down.

i do think poulsen is struggling to settle so far and is looking worse than he 'really is'. But, like konchesky v insua, the decision to replace lucas with him is utterly, utterly mad.

[Reece]

in fairness i think poulsen, on paper and assuming he's settled, offers a bit more than lucas at this point.

I absolutely, completely, 100% disagree with this

[banditos]

in fairness i think poulsen, on paper and assuming he's settled, offers a bit more than lucas at this point.

however, lucas is on the up, poulsen is on his way down.

i do think poulsen is struggling to settle so far and is looking worse than he 'really is'. But, like konchesky v insua, the decision to replace lucas with him is utterly, utterly mad.

What makes you think he hasn't settled and that his current level of performance is the best we're likely to see from him? His lack of physicality and speed across the ground is a real liability in the PL.