Lucas

[Lee]

Where's JohnDoe?

I hope he's ****ed off somewhere and feeling like a cunt. And if he hasn't, then he should be.

[little dave hedgehog]

[Pablo]

Gaz Baz would slot seamlessly into that Brazil starting XI

[danperkins]

Have to say i was very critical of Lucas like many others. I genuinely thought he'd never make it at LFC. But i also never thought he be a DM for us either. To be fair to Rafa he bought Lucas, who was considered a box to box midfielder and somewhere along the line Rafa decided that DM was the position for Lucas. Whether he was more suited to his abilities as a footballer, good engine, workmanlike approach i'm not sure, maybe a mish mash of all of them.

So Lucas the DM was born. His 5 yard sideways balls used to annoy the hell out of me, probably because i thought he was meant to be a box to box player and wanted him to effect the game more. But now in his current role breaking up play and laying the easy pass off is perfect. His tackling has improved no end, although he is prone to giving away free kicks is precarious positions from time to time, but it's going to happen with the way he plays. Although he isn't quick or athletic, his positioning and his reading of the game is the most glaring improvement IMO.

As for Lucas being better than Barry, well IMO Barry is bang average so no for me. And the fact that he is getting his game over De Jong is baffling to me. But i do think Parker is a superb DM, he is dogged and is a fantastic tackler, just ahead of Lucas for the time being, but he has some years on Lucas aswell.

[BillobShaisley]

Gaz Baz would slot seamlessly into that Brazil starting XI

You might be thinking of te wrong Lucas or confusing him with Ganso.

If Gaz Baz was Brazilian, he would be a Brazilian International at the present. One of the worst Brazil teams for a long time.

[BootRoom]

Barry is slow and ponderous; the antithesis of a 'dominating midfielder'.

[dww]

I like Barry but he's not even really a holding player. He is often out of position in that role and he's been exposed quite consistently when there isn't another defensive player in midfield with him. Lucas is much better tactically and in terms of positioning.

Barry offers more in terms of crosses and set pieces but as a defensive midfielder he is IMO nowhere near as good as Lucas.

[Shaggy]

I like Barry but he's not even really a holding player. He is often out of position in that role and he's been exposed quite consistently when there isn't another defensive player in midfield with him. Lucas is much better tactically and in terms of positioning.

Barry offers more in terms of crosses and set pieces but as a defensive midfielder he is IMO nowhere near as good as Lucas.

Was gonna say but couldn't be arsed myself ...Barry is not a holding midfielder, he says so himself. At Villa he was absolutely not a holding mid and only after being played there by England - who play Gerrard as a left winger - did he start being described as a holding mid.

As you say he does okay for City as there's another next to him, but he's often been horribly exposed for England. And FWIW I think he's a good player who gets unreasonable stick.

[Assassin]

Why don't you give me a potentially shorter list, of all the central midfielders playing in other top sides who are inferior to Lucas.

I think that could be more interesting.

Is Lucas better than Scott Parker?
Is he better than Gareth Barry?
How about Busquets and Xabi Alonso? *giggle*. Top 10 DM in the world somebody said?

Like **** he is.

You're all mental, he's not even close to top 10 CM in the Premier League. Man City alone have 4 players better than him at his position.

Parker, Barry and 3 others from Citeh.


You have to be demented and/or a talentless WUM

[Reece]

I like Barry but he's not even really a holding player. He is often out of position in that role and he's been exposed quite consistently when there isn't another defensive player in midfield with him. Lucas is much better tactically and in terms of positioning.

Barry offers more in terms of crosses and set pieces but as a defensive midfielder he is IMO nowhere near as good as Lucas.

Was gonna say but couldn't be arsed myself ...Barry is not a holding midfielder, he says so himself. At Villa he was absolutely not a holding mid and only after being played there by England - who play Gerrard as a left winger - did he start being described as a holding mid.

As you say he does okay for City as there's another next to him, but he's often been horribly exposed for England. And FWIW I think he's a good player who gets unreasonable stick.

Remember how haplessly Barry performed as a defensive midfielder against Germany in the last world cup.

[Shaggy]

John Doe's deffo no WUM, he's entitled to his views however barking.

[Assassin]

John Doe's deffo no WUM, he's entitled to his views however barking.

[Ben_Itez]

I'm with John Doe.

Lucas is a good player, but we'll never have to worry about Barca, Real, AC, etc trying poach him from us. No one is saying he's ****, but he's a long way from world class.

Barry is a better player all round, as is Yaya, Mascherano, Essien, Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Kompany, De Jong, Parker etc and serveral Diarra's.

IMO Lucas is much better than Barry and still has improvement to come, Gaz Baz is as good as he's gonna get. Yaya is more of an attacking midfielder but i'd say about on par with Lucas although very different players.

I'll give you Busquets and Alonso, probably the two best in the world currently in Lucas' position.

De Jong is a destroyer, not much in it but i think Lucas is better.

Mascherano - maybe but not much in it, plays CB mostly these days. Lucas has more skill though for sure and is the more complete player.

Kompany is a CB who occasionly plays in midfield. Better CB but nowhere near as good in midfield as Lucas.

Parker - not for me - pretty average for such a highly rated player (in the press at least)

Diarra's - Lassana is pretty good but again not as good as Lucas IMO. The rest no way.

[JohnDoe]

Yaya Toure on par with Lucas. Heh.

It's funny that every central midfielder who is clearly a better player than Lucas by being more well rounded as well as being excellent defensively is immediately labeled with a different tag from Lucas ("Attacking midfielder", "Box to box", "Central midfielder")

So I'm only allowed to compare Lucas to similarly limited players ("Defensive midfielders") who can only do a job at one end of the pitch? Central midfielders are central midfielders, if you can't do a job going forward, someone has to to do it for you, there are only 11 players on the pitch.

When you look at top sides, they don't have a place for such a player in their starting line ups, and when they do, they hinder themselves. Look at what has happened to City's midfield once they've dropped De Jong, who's basically Lucas with pace and strength, moved Barry into a holding role (yes, watch the games) and paired Yaya Toure with a more well rounded midfielder (Milner/Nasri). Their transition and passing game improved tremendously.

When was the last time the mancs had a place in the team for such a player? Was it when Phil Neville had a run of games there in that one season a few years ago?

Top sides have deep lying midfielders who are great at distributing the ball. You pick the ball from your defence and you move it with purpose and conviction, something that Lucas has never been able to do in this league. When you have no purpose and no conviction, you can make 100 tackles every game, you'll still be a liability with the ball, which counts more when you're a top side trying to win a game.

Lucas is a limited player. He hinders our passing game and slows it down. His defensive contributions are massively overrated since he's hardly a rock defensively being slow and weak (He gets passed by frequently, Mascherano for example, never allowed that) and as I've mentioned, he's non existent when we're faced with a team sitting deep and waiting for us to break them up.

Overrated beyond words.

[Craig_H]

Remember how haplessly Barry performed as a defensive midfielder against Germany in the last world cup.

Whole team.