Jamie Carragher

[The Birdman]

As brilliant as Carra was in the final the contributions of Pongolle, Mellor, Gerrard, Garcia even Anthony Le Tallac and Scott Carson etc... in getting us there in the first place were more important.
Simply because without their contributions we wouldn't have reached the final for Carra to be brilliant in.

In my time watching Liverpool I would put Hansen, Lawrenson (****ing cunt but great player) Gillespie and Hyypia all ahead of Carra

[Arn]

The most important man out there is always the manager. We wouldn't even been close to win #5 without a brilliant tactician like Rafa.

He is the one that got the best out of a number of players and set up a tactic that suited them.

Then we can argue for years who the most important player was but as already been mentioned. It is a team game. He also of course got the best out of Carragher.

[Norbs]

As brilliant as Carra was in the final the contributions of Pongolle, Mellor, Gerrard, Garcia even Anthony Le Tallac and Scott Carson etc... in getting us there in the first place were more important.
Simply because without their contributions we wouldn't have reached the final for Carra to be brilliant in.

In my time watching Liverpool I would put Hansen, Lawrenson (****ing cunt but great player) Gillespie and Hyypia all ahead of Carra

Weird

[The Birdman]

Weird

Did you not see Gary Gillespie play?
He was a proper rolls royce of a centre back, wonderful footballer.

[Norbs]

Did you not see Gary Gillespie play?
He was a proper rolls royce of a centre back, wonderful footballer.

To be honest, I can't remember him that much because he wasn't a stalwart (or ever present, for want of a better phrase) in the way that Carra's been. Maybe that's why I thought it was weird.

I think you're right that we've had better defenders than Carra over the years but it's the shear length and consistency in the team that puts him above most others in my book

[BringbackBiscan]

As brilliant as Carra was in the final the contributions of Pongolle, Mellor, Gerrard, Garcia even Anthony Le Tallac and Scott Carson etc... in getting us there in the first place were more important.
Simply because without their contributions we wouldn't have reached the final for Carra to be brilliant in.

Aye I'm sure we'd have had no trouble reaching the final with Pellegrino, Traore or even the ledge Biscan playing CB the whole way to the final.

[Shaggy]

As for no excuse for it. Do you/have you ever played football?

Oh dear

[BringbackBiscan]

Oh dear

Not sure what you find funny about that. I've known quite a few lads that start the season slowly and get better as it wears on. I've no idea why, whether it's a mental/physical reason behind it but I do know it happens with some.

How anyone can't see that Carra has been that way is whole career is beyond me.

Oh, and before you tell me professional footballers should be different. They're no fitter then most good sunday league athletes, they just better at what they do.

[Pablo]

Not sure what you find funny about that. I've known quite a few lads that start the season slowly and get better as it wears on. I've no idea why, whether it's a mental/physical reason behind it but I do know it happens with some.

How anyone can't see that Carra has been that way is whole career is beyond me.

Oh, and before you tell me professional footballers should be different. They're no fitter then most good sunday league athletes, they just better at what they do.

[Exiled_red]

As brilliant as Carra was in the final the contributions of Pongolle, Mellor, Gerrard, Garcia even Anthony Le Tallac and Scott Carson etc... in getting us there in the first place were more important.
Simply because without their contributions we wouldn't have reached the final for Carra to be brilliant in.

In my time watching Liverpool I would put Hansen, Lawrenson (****ing cunt but great player) Gillespie and Hyypia all ahead of Carra

In fairness Carragher was excellent throughout the Champions league campaign when we won it (knockout stages in particular), not just in the final.

The players you put ahead of Carragher were all outstanding players, you can still be a great player and not be at their level

[The Birdman]

Aye I'm sure we'd have had no trouble reaching the final with Pellegrino, Traore or even the ledge Biscan playing CB the whole way to the final.

Not sure what you find funny about that. I've known quite a few lads that start the season slowly and get better as it wears on. I've no idea why, whether it's a mental/physical reason behind it but I do know it happens with some.

How anyone can't see that Carra has been that way is whole career is beyond me.

Oh, and before you tell me professional footballers should be different. They're no fitter then most good sunday league athletes, they just better at what they do.

You are clearly on here to take the piss so this is the last time I'll repy to anything of yours as I unlike others have better things to do then argue for the sake of it.

What part of without the others contributions we wouldn't even have got to the final for Carra to be great in it (undispuited) do you not understand??

By "you've known quite a few lads that start the season slowly" do you mean PL footballers? if so who is that then?
If you mean your mates playing in the Johnny Quango Pig & Whistle Sunday 6th Division then thats different...............
There is no excuse for a professional footballer to "start the season slowly" IF he has had an injury free summer and/or hasn't played internationals.
So you are happy for us to drop points because in your own words Carra starts slowly and has been that way for his whole career??

And as for professional footballers being no fitter than Sunday League athletes (an oxymoron surely??) well that is just about the best thing ever written on EST in complete seriousness and that takes some doing.

[The Birdman]

In fairness Carragher was excellent throughout the Champions league campaign when we won it (knockout stages in particular), not just in the final.

The players you put ahead of Carragher were all outstanding players, you can still be a great player and not be at their level

Yes Carra was great but it's a fact that without Pongolle, Mellor scoring then the knock down for Gerrard we wouldn't have got out the group.
Without Garcia and Hyypia scoring we wouldn't have beaten Juve, without a young back up keeper playing well (mistake for the goal I know) without Garcia's goal against Chelsea etc.. etc...

Now Carra is on his way out the CL Final and the win has somehow become soley down to him, some are using it as a reason to keep him in the team etc...
It's not like he smashed a volley in from 35 yards in the last seconds of extra time to take a final to penalties.

I'm not knocking Carra just pointing out that other less herelded squad members had bigger induvidual contributions on the road to Instanbul without those he wouldn't have had the chance to get skinned for 45 minutes, pull himself together, be heroic with the cramp, shout at Dudek etc... he would have been sat in a pub somewhere thinking if only........

As for the other centre backs again I said imo Carra has been very good for 14 odd years and great for maybe 2-3 of those years when Rafa first put him to centre back.
IMO those named were better centre backs for LFC, not more loyal, better stalwarts or whatever I just rate them higher as central defenders

[BringbackBiscan]

You are clearly on here to take the piss so this is the last time I'll repy to anything of yours as I unlike others have better things to do then argue for the sake of it.

What part of without the others contributions we wouldn't even have got to the final for Carra to be great in it (undispuited) do you not understand??

By "you've known quite a few lads that start the season slowly" do you mean PL footballers? if so who is that then?
If you mean your mates playing in the Johnny Quango Pig & Whistle Sunday 6th Division then thats different...............
There is no excuse for a professional footballer to "start the season slowly" IF he has had an injury free summer and/or hasn't played internationals.
So you are happy for us to drop points because in your own words Carra starts slowly and has been that way for his whole career??

And as for professional footballers being no fitter than Sunday League athletes (an oxymoron surely??) well that is just about the best thing ever written on EST in complete seriousness and that takes some doing.

You've clearly tried to make out his contribution in getting to the final wasn't that important. So what centre back pair would have got us there then? If you don't believe we'd have made the final with Traore, Biscan or Pellegino playing every game, then you have to admit he did infact play a very very big part, so big that we wouldn't have made the final without him.

So which is it. Would we have made the final without him or not?

[Pablo]

You've clearly tried to make out his contribution in getting to the final wasn't that important. So what centre back pair would have got us there then? If you don't believe we'd have made the final with Traore, Biscan or Pellegino playing every game, then you have to admit he did infact play a very very big part, so big that we wouldn't have made the final without him.

So which is it. Would we have made the final without him or not?

What's the relevance of all this in terms of whether Carragher should be a starter for us this season?

[Kenneth]

Indeed.