Jamie Carragher

[The Birdman]

Carragher always starts the season slowly and gets better as it wears on. Any Liverpool fan for longer then 12 months should know this by now.

Neither Coates nor Skrtel are good enough to replace right now, and when one of them is the better option for the team, then the King will pick them.

What else is there to it? Some agenda driven bollocks spoken about Carra across the web since Rafa left, that's what.

What utter crap, Carra has a full pre season, he hasnt been injured.
I dont agree with your statment about him starting seasons slowly but even if that were true there is no excuse for any professional footballer retired from international football with a summer off to start a season slowly

[Kronenburg1892]

As a centre back beside Carra. Diao back to play beside Lucas too. That's a spine that'd beat Stoke for sure.

[BringbackBiscan]

What utter crap, Carra has a full pre season, he hasnt been injured.
I dont agree with your statment about him starting seasons slowly but even if that were true there is no excuse for any professional footballer retired from international football with a summer off to start a season slowly

He's started the season slowly every year now for nearly 15 years and got better as it wore on every time. Not sure how you can't agree with that unless you started following the club yesterday.

As for no excuse for it. Do you/have you ever played football? I'm sure if you did you'd know at least one guy you're playing with is the same. I'll be ****ed if I know the scientific reasons for it, but it happens.

End of the day, and this is all that matters here. Is when the time comes that Carra is no longer the better choice to start, then you can damn well be sure the King won't be starting him. Kenny will know before me or you that's another certainty.

[Kronenburg1892]

I think other teams will look at Carra as the weak link, with him 'losing his legs' as the press will have you believe.

So unfortunately, he's going to get some stick over the next few games.

I do believe that he still has a load to give LFC, and that his future is pretty much mapped out. What I'm not sure of is the transition of him being a starting 11 name to a suring up sub.

[BootRoom]

True, but don't ever forget his heroic efforts in Istanbul please. Without him we would not have old big ears for keeps.

I love the guy and think we are jumping the gun a bit here. I think he still has another season or 2 at the very highest level in him.

We wouldn't have won without the likes of Gerrard, Alonso, Smicer, Dudek, Cisse, Traore, Luis Garcia, Pongolle, Hyypia. Loads of players made contributions that had an important influence on us winning the final, getting there, or both. To single out one player as if it was all down to him is utterly ridiculous.

[yamiedo]

Kenny isn't one to put reputations in front of the importance of the team so if he carries on starting Carragher then I will trust the fact that he is the best option at this moment in time. If Kenny thought he couldn't handle it anymore he would take him out the team and until then I am going to be supportive of Carra as first choice.

[BootRoom]

What I will add is this argument for playing Carra because he organises the defence is complete and utter bollocks.
Our defence was pretty well organised before he became a regular and will be after he stops being a first choice pick. That's the job of Steve Clarke positionally and collectively the 4 that play at the back will work as a unit.
Skrtel and Coates are both internationals so whichever one comes in is more than capable of pointing fingers in someones direction ans shouting.

Pick or don't pick Carra based purely on ability and form alone, this organisation bull**** is used to ignore the real problems which is age, pace (or lack of it), mobility and a infuriating fettish with launching the ball long, high and aimlessly.

And btw those who were questioning Kenny earlier as to whether he has the balls to drop him? too ****ing right he does, he is exactly the right person to make this decision.

If Kenny continues to pick Carra then I'm 100% behind the decision, personally I would have been looking at alternative centre back pairings last season and certainly now that we have signed Coates

It's just an 'intangible' that people can use as an argument because it's harder to dispute. Some posters give the impression that the rest of the defence is comprised of 12 year old school boys that need coaxing and cajoling all through the match.

[Tee]

We wouldn't have won without the likes of Gerrard, Alonso, Smicer, Dudek, Cisse, Traore, Luis Garcia, Pongolle, Hyypia. Loads of players made contributions that had an important influence on us winning the final, getting there, or both. To single out one player as if it was all down to him is utterly ridiculous.

Carra's best ever game for us IMO. Stand by what I said - without his performance we would have lost. Sure others also made massive contributions but how many other players aside from Carra had arguably their best games for us that night? Just my opinion.

[topscorer]

Edit - Out of interest what defenders older than Carra have done well in the PL?, I can't think of any, certainly not recently in top 4/6 sides

Sami?

not jumping in here to defend carragher or have a go at coates or anything like that...

but seeing a lot of people convinced that Coates is going to come in and win the league

Now i really hope coates does well for us....but a question for the anti carra/pro coates brigade....

What happens if we drop coates for spurs away - he struggles to adapt under a bit of pressure on his debut - makes a mistake and costs us the game, we then decide to stick with him but in our next game is a bit unlucky and concedes a penalty and we lose that too....

Do we then slate coates as being out of his depth, slate kenny for throwing him in at the deep end and start calling for more experience at the back in the big games??

Kenny isn't one to put reputations in front of the importance of the team so if he carries on starting Carragher then I will trust the fact that he is the best option at this moment in time. If Kenny thought he couldn't handle it anymore he would take him out the team and until then I am going to be supportive of Carra as first choice.

I'm sure Coates will get games this season just like Skrtl, Agger & Carra but I don't think we'll see the same 2 starting every game.

Kenny & Steve Clarke will see how they perform in training, consider how they performed in the last game, consider the tactics for the upcoming game, consider the strengths and weaknesses of the upcoming opponents and choose the best 11 from the squad for that particular game.

Just like Kenny has had no hesitation to drop Carroll.

As Kenny keeps saying - 'one game at a time' and 'it's a squad game'. He expects everyone to be able to step in at a moments notice and do a job.

[BootRoom]

Carra's best ever game for us IMO. Stand by what I said - without his performance we would have lost. Sure others also made massive contributions but how many other players aside from Carra had arguably their best games for us that night? Just my opinion.

You do realise we shipped 3 goals don't you, and Carragher was in the middle of all three? He's had well better games than that. You think if Hamman hadn't come on to shore things up in the middle we would have won the game? You put Carrahgher ahead of Gerrard? Dudek's wonder save and penalty heroics? It's all very emotional, but in the cold light of day I just don't see it. Lots of incidents conspired in our favour.

[Darkon]

It's just an 'intangible' that people can use as an argument because it's harder to dispute. Some posters give the impression that the rest of the defence is comprised of 12 year old school boys that need coaxing and cajoling all through the match.

I rather see the dismissal of it as a poor excuse to only focus on how fast he is, which is one very small attribute in the set that a good defender needs. The mentality of a defender is far more important to a defender than how pacy he is.

Perhaps it would be better if we called it leadership then? Or is it not important to have a good leader in the defense. It's not quite the same but, it's a close substitute.

What Carra posseses that will not be replaced by throwing in a 20 year old newcomer from a different footballing culture, is his ability to get the defense working as a unite - an essential. He has great communication skills (even with his accent), he has good positioning, good at holding a line, respected for his decisions on the pitch (influence and decision-making) and in short it helps our defense immensly. Yes he made a mistake but everybody does from time to time.

By the argument that alone his age and lack of pace disqualifies him, then we should have bought walcott and thrown in the defense he would be the best ever.

Defending is so much more than just a set of physical attributes. The offside rule is the essential of footballing tactics, and the defense is in the heart of it, and you therefore need a lot more in that area of the pitch than you do as a poacher up front.

[Fredo]

Carra can't pass the ball.

[Darkon]

[Tee]

You do realise we shipped 3 goals don't you, and Carragher was in the middle of all three? He's had well better games than that. You think if Hamman hadn't come on to shore things up in the middle we would have won the game? You put Carrahgher ahead of Gerrard? Dudek's wonder save and penalty heroics? It's all very emotional, but in the cold light of day I just don't see it. Lots of incidents conspired in our favour.

Can't honestly say I can remember anything better - please feel free to remind me.

And yes, emotions aside he was truly outstanding that night and it would have been a very heavy defeat without him in that form. IMO.

[BillobShaisley]

Not having pace at the back means you have to sit deeper, can't press as high up the pitch and requires more cover from midfield positions.

A lack of pace is far from terminal for a defender but it does change the way a team defends. One of the weaknesses we had with Sami/Carra and Didi in midfield, despite them all being utter class was that we had to defend deep which meant we were restricted in how we played.