Martin Skrtel

[danperkins]

Yeah there's no way Lovren will be sold. I suppose we really don't know what way Rodgers will set us up. Clyne is an improvement on what we have at the moment at RB IMO & yeah I do agree that some cover at LB would be nice.... Moreno really does needs to improve defensively.

I liked to see the Skrtel/Sakho partnership in a four. With Mig a lot more solid these days & Gerrard not leaving gaping holes in front of the backline, it would be a decent pairing..... well if Sakho could stay fit that is.

I would like to see us go all out for attacking players, we needs goals, but definitely need to get cover in the backline... as don't want to be left short. Not quite sure about Wisdom but I wonder will he be considered backup for RB or even RCB? Players leaving the club will give us a bit more of an indication as to what Rodgers wants to do.

[redmike65]

Our defence for the last 2 seasons

ha! The defence is only as bad as the coaching and the fella who is sat in front of it - see Gerrard, Steven. Stick Lucas in there and its like a different ball game.

[danperkins]

QFT, dunno what the fella above you is watching!

I know mate ah sure Mr.M and several others on here are not a fan.. each to their own. And sure the other fella is the same bloke was championing Lovren to be the next Franco Baresi at the start of the season. Can't quite get over Skrtel nailing down that CB spot & being one of our best players this season.

Whatever about not liking a player, everyone has their preferences.... but give credit where it's due ffs

EDIT

[danperkins]

ha! The defence is only as bad as the coaching and the fella who is sat in front of it - see Gerrard, Steven. Stick Lucas in there and its like a different ball game.

the difference was pretty huge when we actually played an actual DM... in the DM position. We looked rock solid during that time.

We aren't like Barca where we can afford not to have a DM, it really did leave enormous gaps in front of the our defence. Personally I think Henderson suffered because of this and it's a big reason why he looked so burned out in the last few months of the season.

[MrMichael]

ha! The defence is only as bad as the coaching and the fella who is sat in front of it - see Gerrard, Steven. Stick Lucas in there and its like a different ball game.

I'd like this to be right.

Those haven't been the only problems in our defence however over this entire period. I'm just not that happy with saying basically the same players, with like an adequate replacement for Johnson, and what looks like will be the same coaching, is going to be enough. Or more to the point will be seen as enough at the club.

Is Lucas the sole answer to stopping all those ridiculous goals?

[danperkins]

No Mr.M IMO just playing a DM in a DM position was the answer IMO, and I thought that was evident when Lucas came into the side... the balance returned. Not the only reason but a pretty huge reason why we looked so fragile defending over the last 2 seasons. Playing a a 34 year old, that had lost his legs & that cannot play that position really took its tool.

I love Stevie & it wasn't his fault he was asked to play there, but it absolutely killed us at the back & completely stagnated Henderson natural game IMO.

[BigChief]

50 goals and 48 goals conceded where he played the majority of both seasons.

Rodgers tactics, **** fullbacks, Steven Gerrard. However you want to dress it up Martin, that's effing atrocious. I would be just as meh if he left as I will be when he eventually signs. Meh is all I can think of this story.

[MrMichael]

No Mr.M IMO just playing a DM in a DM position was the answer IMO, and I thought that was evident when Lucas came into the side... the balance returned. Not the only reason but a pretty huge reason why we looked so fragile defending over the last 2 seasons. Playing a a 34 year old, that had lost his legs & that cannot play that position really took its tool.

I love Stevie & it wasn't his fault he was asked to play there, but it absolutely killed us at the back & completely stagnated Henderson natural game IMO.

I do mostly agree. Lucas has played 62 games for us in the last 2 seasons. I wonder how many times he has played in front of just Sakho - Skrtel in a flat 4 and how they have done? Someone magic some stats!

So what we're saying is

---Henderson - Coutinho/Can?
-------------Lucas
Moreno - Sakho - Skrtel - Clyne
-------------Mignolet

Given 4-3-3 is more likely than 4-4-2.

It really is very similar to this year. Can we just make the difference with forwards and better setup all the way behind that? I hope so if that's what we do but being this far apart on contract negotiations with 12 months left does make me wonder if we will choose to sell Skrtel and try to buy what Lovren was supposed to be to make a perceived difference. I can see how that logic would develop... we've developed logic for much more insane things than that before

[dww]

I'd like this to be right.

Those haven't been the only problems in our defence however over this entire period. I'm just not that happy with saying basically the same players, with like an adequate replacement for Johnson, and what looks like will be the same coaching, is going to be enough. Or more to the point will be seen as enough at the club.

Is Lucas the sole answer to stopping all those ridiculous goals?

I think a coherent system which fits the players is the answer (and if we want fullbacks bombing forward in a 4 that means a DM capable of dropping back is essential).

I think Skrtel is very hard to find a complementary CB for in a partnership. Looked good as the deepest in a 3 though. I like his attitude and kind of feel that like Toure when he was at Arsenal some tweaks to his game could unlock a really excellent player.

The combination of Skrtel and Mignolet has been pretty catastrophic at times. I think simple plans can help that though. Look at how Szczesny was ordered to play in the cup final. With a set way of playing he looked very solid. If we keep faith with our current personnel we need to look to change how we use them to get the best our of them. If we go for a back three then we need to be using two mobile CBs who are comfortable on the ball either side of it. This season we made things work with Can and Sakho but there was no one who could step in, would Ilori or Wisom work? Coates? I'm not so sure (although at least Coates has international experience playing in the system from back when he was last a confident payer).

[danperkins]

I do mostly agree. Lucas has played 62 games for us in the last 2 seasons. I wonder how many times he has played in front of just Sakho - Skrtel in a flat 4 and how they have done? Someone magic some stats!

So what we're saying is

---Henderson - Coutinho/Can?
-------------Lucas
Moreno - Sakho - Skrtel - Clyne
-------------Mignolet

Given 4-3-3 is more likely than 4-4-2.

It really is very similar to this year. Can we just make the difference with forwards and better setup all the way behind that? I hope so if that's what we do but being this far apart on contract negotiations with 12 months left does make me wonder if we will choose to sell Skrtel and try to buy what Lovren was supposed to be to make a perceived difference. I can see how that logic would develop... we've developed logic for much more insane things than that before

That's what I would like to see Skrtel/Sakho in back four, a confident Mig behind, decent defenders either side (RB/LB) & DM(Lucas) in front. I doubt very much we've ever seen that. People have stats about us conceding as Skrtel was a mainstay, that is true, but Gerrard as a DM was also a mainstay. Glen Johnson too, he just deteriorated so badly over the last few seasons. Quite alarmingly actually & we've had to rely on him as a mainstay last season & many times this season...... as we've had injuries & kept changing formations.

Every CB will make individual mistakes and Skrtel has his fair share but the space left by Gerrard & the amount of covering he's had to do for Glen Johnson IMO really has made things worse. It just pulls the defence apart. I know Lovren has been woeful, caused so many goals and I'm really not a fan at all, but in an already new and unfamiliar back line.... I don't think he was helped either by a lack of a DM in front of him to be fair.

How many times did we see both CB's rushing out to cover space/tackle opposition in the first few months of the season, going into areas that they really shouldn't be in & in turn leaving huge gaps in our defence. I remember watching the matches & thinking "What the hell are they doing so far out there"!!?? Then in the second half of the season a complete role reversal... they were reluctant to rush out to cover that space , so they ended up dropped deeper and deeper inviting pressure on & watching the game I remember thinking "Why the hell are you dropping so deep... get out"!!?? I think both of those actions were a symptom of having Gerrard infront of them, in a position that he couldn't play. Do we go out to cover the space left by our midfield? Nope, it didn't work. Let's try dropping deeper instead condense the play a bit.... Nope, it still didn't work.

Everyone has there opinion and Skrtel seems to divide opinions on here. It does happen with some players, the supporters just don't agree. Clearly I like Skrtel, he has good pace, decent on the ball but he has a bit of balls about him. 100% he can be rash on times but he shows passion & fight that seems no existent in most of our squad. I really respect that he isn't afraid to stand up and be counted, when others are hiding in game & you need players like that in your team IMO. I can only think of two other CB's in Terry & Cahill that have performed better than Skrtel. An Chelsea have been so consistent in their back four selection.

Anyways, me personally I would like to see a flat back 4 of:

RB(Clyne?) ----- Skrtel---Sakho ------ LB (Moreno?)

But once again it's new players playing together and trying to learn on the job. We literally haven't had a settled back line in years & for me that is the biggest issue. Whether is due to injuries or just chopping and changing... surely familiarity in most back lines breeds cohesion?? Rodgers IMO needs to find his best team, who ever they may be and stick to it.

[Rich]

Sakho really needs a full season without any injuries though - as we've seen with our pathetic attack, it is no good relying on an injury prone brilliant player.

As for Skrtel, I'm not a fan particularly, but replacing him wouldn't be a priority of mine and he'd go into the new season as my first choice CB, playing along side Sakho. But it is imperative that we play a defensively midfielder in front of them to help protect them.

[The Birdman]

This is what we've come to, paranoid and **** scared about losing a bang average centre back.

The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results.

Let's give an average 29/30 year old player a 4 year 6 figure a week plus contract then sit back and watch as
A. We let in stupid goals and finish 5-8th again.
B. Have him as an expensive squad player in 12-18 months time who we can't get off the wage bill.

[redmike65]

Agree with all of that. Its crazy and a sign of management ineptitude to have so many central defenders and no set system or cohesion among them.

[peekay]

This is what we've come to, paranoid and **** scared about losing a bang average centre back.

The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results.

Let's give an average 29/30 year old player a 4 year 6 figure a week plus contract then sit back and watch as
A. We let in stupid goals and finish 5-8th again.
B. Have him as an expensive squad player in 12-18 months time who we can't get off the wage bill.

Agree with everything you said. But then given the absolute turdpile that is our defense and the fact that only other decent defender, Sakho, is frequently injured, losing Skrtl will affect us.

[BillobShaisley]

I see Lucas is well regarded here. I'd honestly rather Joe Allen play. Lucas is done, he was good for 18months tops out of all his time here. With Milner and Henderson starters and Can/Allen as backup he should leave.