Brendan Rodgers

[Fredo]

Then just get used to the mediocrity!

Well no, I'm certainly not and I don't think anyone is. Point is, Klopp or whoever comes in will have to work within a structure which is disjointed, unless there is a will within the ones who make those decisions, to realise that the current way is not working. I've yet to be convinced that the owners are sure that Klopp or Ancelotti are the person they want. If there have been discussions, I'm sure they would have revolved around fitting within the current structure, much as there's been discussion before Rodgers was appointed.

[Fredo]

I think you're right. I think next summer Rodgers should sack his back room team & replace them because what's going wrong is soooooo obviously all their fault

He's so persuasive that I think he can even sack FSG and run the club on his own.

[DannyMan2006]

I'm not sure I buy this completely. The 4-3-3 of Swansea relied on wide players with pace in the 3. We bought none of them, leaving us with Ibe who arguably fits the bill.

In general if we didn't intend a diamond-ish midfield or 4-3-2-1 formation I think our buys collectively look odd.

In one sense the signing of the players makes sense. A forward line full of flicks & tricks all buzzing around displaying great movement with a big focal point in Benteke.

The problem is that Rodgers has never managed to make something like that work. What he needed was pace on the wings so they could cover the ground between helping the defence & getting up to support Chris.

I think Rodgerd is envisioning the AVB Porto side. Studge on the RW in the Hulk role cutting in & smashing in loads of goals. But on the LW that Porto side had a proper LW with pace to provide width. Ibe could do the job but he's not concistent enough yet and would leave us with Lallana & Firmino on the bench.

Better to have signed someone like Bolasie than Firmino if you want to play a 433 like that.

[DannyMan2006]

He's so persuasive that I think he can even sack FSG and run the club on his own.

In a way he already is since he's pretty much been the one appointing the youth staff. We had one good season & decided to give him the keys to the club. I'm almost to the point where I think we should have just given control to Commoli and asked him to find a new manager.

It's common knowledge he wanted Mario Goetze & Blaise Matuidi that summer we signed Downing & Adam. Tbh, I'd want better than him but we've really messed up giving Rodgers almost total control.

[vlahka]

Don't you think that, now with McAlliser and O'Driscoll around, explains why Rodgers's decision making is so muddled? I mean, having three heads to discuss tactics and how we should set up, means that there could be some confusion.

One could also say would you want a manager in charge who gets confused as easily as that when listening to his staff. Something all the other managers dont seem to have a problem with.

Also neither were around last season when Rodgers decided to play a team with 7 midfielders on the pitch. All the strange decisions seem directly from him. I'd likely say McAlliser and O'Driscoll are most likely as confused to his decision making as we are.

[dww]

In one sense the signing of the players makes sense. A forward line full of flicks & tricks all buzzing around displaying great movement with a big focal point in Benteke.

The problem is that Rodgers has never managed to make something like that work. What he needed was pace on the wings so they could cover the ground between helping the defence & getting up to support Chris.

I think Rodgerd is envisioning the AVB Porto side. Studge on the RW in the Hulk role cutting in & smashing in loads of goals. But on the LW that Porto side had a proper LW with pace to provide width. Ibe could do the job but he's not concistent enough yet and would leave us with Lallana & Firmino on the bench.

Better to have signed someone like Bolasie than Firmino if you want to play a 433 like that.

I have no idea what Rodgers is envisioning but what we have got is like a less organized version of van Gaals United.

You could suggest that the buzzing attacking players make sense but none of the formations used by Rodgers in practice really seem setup to make best use of them. As you point out most teams that work that way also have a player to open up play - we bought Markovic and never played him.

It does really rather make you think Fredo has a point - that some signings have been made to facilitate a system Rodgers articulates but he is actually trying to implement something else.

[Fredo]

Point in favour of Rodgers, even though some people will point out that Suarez was the genius which made the system click in 2013, he had the awareness to tweak that system and to make both a 442 diamond and a 433 work. In the latter, both Sturridge and Suarez alternated between playing on the wing, with great success. It does boil down to player quality in the end, both tactically and technically. Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge, all together, formed a lethal partnership and Rodgers made the system work. This is a fact.

It's not been so great since, but it could be argued that signing quality players, having all the attributes of fitting into different systems of play, are very hard to find.

[dww]

Point in favour of Rodgers, even though some people will point out that Suarez was the genius which made the system click in 2013, he had the awareness to tweak that system and to make both a 442 diamond and a 433 work. In the latter, both Sturridge and Suarez alternated between playing on the wing, with great success. It does boil down to player quality in the end, both tactically and technically. Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge, all together, formed a lethal partnership and Rodgers made the system work. This is a fact.

It's not been so great since, but it could be argued that signing quality players, having all the attributes of fitting into different systems of play, are very hard to find.

The worrying thing for me is that Rodgers seemed to learn none of the lessons from that season:
Pressing game requires mobile forwards
Counter attacking effectively needs the ball to move quickly

We have often had players who look like being able to play roles in a tweaked variant of that system but never really tried it (barring the Sturridge/Balotelli game at Spurs last season).

[BigChief]

Think I preferred the old optimistic BigChief - he's broken you man....

For that there is no coming back - he has to go....

I'm still an optimistic guy. I set Rodgers my own personal targets which were more flexible than probably yourself. Same as I did with Hodgson. Those targets have not been met so we move on.

Looking forward to setting new optimistic targets for the new manager

[frank the tank]

One could also say would you want a manager in charge who gets confused as easily as that when listening to his staff. Something all the other managers dont seem to have a problem with.

Also neither were around last season when Rodgers decided to play a team with 7 midfielders on the pitch. All the strange decisions seem directly from him. I'd likely say McAlliser and O'Driscoll are most likely as confused to his decision making as we are.

for me, it was a silly point to make. Having 2 assistants confuse things?? In reality, all managers have assistants and coaches.....some have a lot more than 2 or 3 as well.

For me, the biggest problem right now is the fact that we don't seem to have a way of playing. We had 2 years ago - we would press the opposition high up the pitch, force them into mistakes and hit them hard. We would essentially work our bollix off to get ahead in a game and then hopefully have the nous to close out a game. Our terrible defense wasn't so much or an issue because we were too busy attacking. A bit like Barcelona-light.

And it was fantastic.

Now we just seem to muddle along looking to tweak things. To look intelligent as a team. And we hear snippets about things like controlling the spaces. It's bull****.

And we have ended up with a bunch of players that can bring loads of different attributes - because we need options, of course we do. We then hear about needing the right tools.

Well what LFC have now is loads of different tools. Loads of tools but no plan. Brendan is like the guy in the IKEA instruction manuals scratching his head.

So for me, that is why he needs to be removed. Not because of a ****ty performance against West Ham. Not because we could only score 1 goal out of something like 95 shots against Carlisle. Not because we made Man United look like Barcelona 2011. But because we don't have direction. We don't have a way of playing. We don't have a best 11. And we are left with ****loads of players who will end up being played out of position, doing ****e, and then being discarded for another player to start that cycle all over again.

[Fredo]

The worrying thing for me is that Rodgers seemed to learn none of the lessons from that season:
Pressing game requires mobile forwards
Counter attacking effectively needs the ball to move quickly

We have often had players who look like being able to play roles in a tweaked variant of that system but never really tried it (barring the Sturridge/Balotelli game at Spurs last season).

Yeah, this is weird, but it seems we targeted Sanchez to replace Suarez, so the logic there wasn't flawed (if reports we were in for him are true). Losing Suarez, I think, caught the club by surprise and Sturridge getting himself injured in the process didn't help.

It would have been hard for any club anyway, to have had to replace players of the calibre of Sturridge and Suarez in one season. This to me, has been our downfall. Sterling was excellent in his pressing and the sole reason he was deployed upfront, and it made the system work for a bit.

As for not throwing Ings up top with Benteke since the start of the season, there might have been reasons involving fitness in this, but it's all hypothetical at this stage.

[calvoboy]

The worrying thing for me is that Rodgers seemed to learn none of the lessons from that season:
Pressing game requires mobile forwards
Counter attacking effectively needs the ball to move quickly

We have often had players who look like being able to play roles in a tweaked variant of that system but never really tried it (barring the Sturridge/Balotelli game at Spurs last season).

It's telling that we've only started to look OK in Henderson's absence since Ings got his pick.

Maybe Brendan underestimated Ings like most of us did? At the moment I'd be picking him ahead of a fit Benteke. Henderson, Milner, Coutinho, Sturridge and Ings could be a really effective pressing unit, and quick on the counter too.

[Fredo]

Ings was always excellent in his pressing game. I remember thinking that he would suit our game very well when we were linked to him last year. It's not surprising why the likes of Markovic was shipped out on loan really, as were never really effective defensively. Why they were bought in the first place is a mystery, but probably down to players available in the market and buying potential.

[danperkins]

Fredo blazing a trail in the Rodgers thread

[Fredo]

Not really. Am just bored.