Brendan Rodgers

[RichC]

We need to take more points thats for sure but we've been undone with some individual errors i.e. Skrtel against City some piss poor officiating i.e. Everton goal that was disallowed or the umpteen penalties we should have been given this season and we're light up top on the plus side though we're unbeaten in 6 games in the league now and really could have had 3 more wins than we have already - City, Chelsea and Everton.

A settled defensive set up is needed which I include Lucas in and I think we'll see us moving up the table, it's unlikely that a top 4 finish is going to happen but I think we can get in and around that group by the end of the season but probably to finish outside of it.

[red g]

We need to take more points thats for sure but we've been undone with some individual errors i.e. Skrtel against City some piss poor officiating i.e. Everton goal that was disallowed or the umpteen penalties we should have been given this season and we're light up top on the plus side though we're unbeaten in 6 games in the league now and really could have had 3 more wins than we have already - City, Chelsea and Everton.

A settled defensive set up is needed which I include Lucas in and I think we'll see us moving up the table, it's unlikely that a top 4 finish is going to happen but I think we can get in and around that group by the end of the season but probably to finish outside of it.

Early in the season, Most errors were from Gerrard/Reina and you could never have thought that.

I think 6 undefeated is rather good as we all know that with more firepower those could easily have been wins.

I also don't see why we can't push on for top 4 when things start to fall into place we are 4 and 5 points behind the teams most likely to get 4th ( Spurs/Arsenal) I hardly think that is unsurmountable at this point in the season.

[Lecter]

I love the way the media spin this however they feel will get the biggest negative fan reaction -

"12 points from 11 games is three points worse than the same position under Roy Hodgson in 2010/2011 as he was on the road to effectively being run out of town by disaffected Liverpool supporters."

McNulty should be well aware Hodgson had 'no plan' and was clueless as to what the club was all about. Roy was woeful - outdated tactics, appalling signings, brown-nosing Fergie and was totally cringeworthy in front of the press. So, forget the points tally, McNulty - the overriding fact is, Roy was just a clueless muppet completely out of his depth.

All this is true but it doesnt get away from the fact that Roy had more points than Brendan does at this stage of the season

[Maxiedge]

We were in a better state mentally when Roy took over. Last season we turned into a fragile unit. If we conceded first...it was game over.

I'm fairly content with our season so far but the most pleasing aspect is that we seem mentally stronger. Not strong enough yet, but it's an improvement.

[Tribute]

All this is true but it doesnt get away from the fact that Roy had more points than Brendan does at this stage of the season

...as you say, that's an indisputable fact.

I'd still rather have a proper plan and signs of progression under Rodgers than the embarassing Roy with all his chunnerings...

[Lecter]

Dont get me wrong I'm not in any way advocating Roy over Brendan

That said I cant say I'm as impressed as some are on here by Brendan

[Alex]

Ok, can we cool it with the 'You said this, and I said that' stuff. Stick to the topic at hand rather than trying to score points off each other please. Thanks

All this is true but it doesnt get away from the fact that Roy had more points than Brendan does at this stage of the season

Its not a fair comparison. Roy had a stronger squad didn't he? Especially upfront and in Midfield, what with Maxi, Kyut and Torres. I think that would benefit anyone. Plus Rodgers is blooding youngsters like Sterling, Suso, Wisdom and Shelvey. So results will naturally be poorer in that case.

[Lecter]

Its not a fair comparison. Roy had a stronger squad didn't he? Especially upfront and in Midfield, what with Maxi, Kyut and Torres. I think that would benefit anyone. Plus Rodgers is blooding youngsters like Sterling, Suso, Wisdom and Shelvey. So results will naturally be poorer in that case.

I'm not convinced Roys squad was that much better frankly.

He had Gerrard, Lucas & Poulsen in midfield (Mascherano only played a couple of games). Upfront he had Torres & Ngog we have Suarez & Borini/Sterling

Do you believe our current squad is superior to West Hams or West Broms??

Because I do

[Norbs]

The key with any system is to stick with it if its working, regardless of any short term setbacks. So if you're in control of a game, don't revert to another system just because you concede.

Controlling a game by possession doesn't mean our game goes to pot if we concede. It's the same as any system. Concede and the opposition will attack less, draw you onto them and generally become more solid. They'll play on the counter and if you gamble you'll be vulnerable.

What I don't think is credited is that the 'system' is merely a starting point from which Rodgers will build. Suggestions are that he's not flexible but yesterday's shift in tactic shows he is very good at it. The 'system' or 'playing a passing game' will be rigid, and quite rightly so as we need to improve our possession and ball skills. Once he has a squad of players happy to hold on to the ball we'll see any combination of formations to suit our personnel and the teams we're up against. Learning to pass is just starting at the bottom, it's apparent that from that starting point we're working our way up.

He's making mistakes, he's admitting to making mistakes, and he'll make more mistakes. Rome wasn't built in a day

[Mattshark]

I'm not convinced Roys squad was that much better frankly.

He had Gerrard, Lucas & Poulsen in midfield (Mascherano only played a couple of games). Upfront he had Torres & Ngog we have Suarez & Borini/Sterling

Do you believe our current squad is superior to West Hams or West Broms??

Because I do

He had a younger Gerrard and also Meireles
He also had Maxi and Kuyt for attacking options.

The squad was far stronger.

Our first team maybe, we have 0 depth though and are missing our only holding midfielder and we lack goals in our team.

[Shaggy]

Time for a bit of balance:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-liverpool-start-to-look-more-than-a-oneman-band-as-brendan-rodgers-calls-classic-tune-8305076.html

James Lawton: Liverpool start to look more than a one-man band as Brendan Rodgers calls classic tune

Suddenly they had more than Suarez to conjure a little belief in a brighter future

The weekend was supposed to be about indomitable United, defiant City and a Chelsea team winning back at least a little of the authority you associate with European champions. It was shaping up as a re-statement of some pretty well established power.

Yet who is so unmindful of those currents in football that spring up with arresting force on the most unlikely of occasions that they could ignore the significance of Liverpool's latest declaration that they, too, are on the mend?

It may be a long job and one ultimately decided by the willingness of their American management to back seriously the vision and the nerve of their young manager Brendan Rodgers, but in the meantime there is no reason to ignore the force of his team's recovery at Stamford Bridge yesterday. For some time Rodgers, despite a run of unbeaten Premier League games, seemed to be still locked in impossible odds against a team for whom the midfield axis of Juan Mata, Oscar, Eden Hazard and Ramires is promising new levels of superior touch and coherence. But then something remarkable happened. Liverpool, buoyed by another strike from – who else? – Luis Suarez, not only started to play immeasurably better football; they also looked distinctly like, well, Liverpool.

A Liverpool from a somewhat different age, that is. A Liverpool who could create authentic momentum and who on this day, which had for some time threatened a discouraging descent into futility, had more than the extraordinary Suarez to conjure a little belief in a brighter future.

Steven Gerrard, passing milestones of longevity as he anticipates his arrival in England's club of centurion cap winners, found again moments of striking influence. Raheem Sterling's startling precocity has rarely looked so securely moored to a remarkably old head. Jose Enrique supplied width and craft as the course of the match switched sharply in Liverpool's direction – and if this was just possibly a crossroads for the Rodgers project, who better bravely to signpost new possibilities than the near superannuated hero Jamie Carragher?

His flick on from the impressive substitute Suso's corner re-lit some old Liverpool fire as Suarez detached himself utterly from the Chelsea cover. As a piece of gnarled but brilliantly marshalled old pro savvy it almost rivalled the supreme example provided by John Terry.

Extraordinary, isn't it, this ability of Terry and Suarez so regularly to produce moments which, for some time at least, put on hold on the contortions normally involved in any positive assessment of their contributions to English football.

Their redemption is the one that often persuades their managers to pull down a veil on the worst of their excesses. Kenny Dalglish carried himself to managerial oblivion partly because of his unshakeable loyalty to the controversial, and sometimes appalling, Uruguayan, and if Roberto Di Matteo is at all ambivalent about Terry's place in Chelsea's future it is doubtful if the Spanish Inquisition could have persuaded him to say an unkind word about the club's captain.

It is hardly a mystery – not when Terry comes back from his four-match ban and Di Matteo's decision to leave him out of last week's ordeal of fire against Shakhtar Donetsk with a predatory masterpiece at a corner. It was as much as anything a professional mugging. Branislav Ivanovic tied up Daniel Agger so comprehensively he failed only to apply handcuffs, then Terry stole into the empty space to send a superb header past Brad Jones in the Liverpool goal.

Among the Chelsea faithful there was, inevitably, adoration which was compounded when he was carried off the field after a gut-wrenching collision with Suarez. There, in a moment, was a physical expression of all kinds of football fear and loathing – and dogged admiration for the best qualities of these players: Terry, at first howling with pain, then stretching out a knee that there was reason at first to fear had been shattered, and Suarez, unequivocally innocent in this affair, standing over him with his face a picture of, if not compassion, then genuine concern.

With Gary Cahill in Terry's place and the Chelsea midfielders beginning to ripple pleasingly, it seemed like nothing more than a re-assertion of that Premier League power complex, with Chelsea, surely, moving to within a point of United after the victorious escape from a punishing sentence against Shakhtar.

Yet Rodgers was not easily discouraged. He sent on the vibrant young Spaniard Suso, re-shaped his back-five formation, and Liverpool were once against impressively competitive. Suarez scored his sixth goal in six Premier League games and suddenly he found sources of unusual support.

Rodgers warmly applauded his players at the end, as well he might have done. He is a young manager engaging in a huge task of renewal – and he is doing it extremely well.

[Alex]

I'm not convinced Roys squad was that much better frankly.

He had Gerrard, Lucas & Poulsen in midfield (Mascherano only played a couple of games). Upfront he had Torres & Ngog we have Suarez & Borini/Sterling

Do you believe our current squad is superior to West Hams or West Broms??

Because I do

Oh I definatly think its better. Better than Newcastle too. Infact, I even put it on par with Arsenal and maybe just below spurs.

The trouble is that we seem to be doing a lot of new rebuilding all at the same time. As I said, we have these 4 youngsters who have been great this season for us. But they are learning on the job. Especially Sterling and Suso, who have essentially become first teamers all of a sudden.

I just think comparing the two starts isnt that fair. I dont know without looking. But did Roy have to play Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and the Derby in his first 11 games?

[Lecter]

He had a younger Gerrard and also Meireles
He also had Maxi and Kuyt for attacking options.

The squad was far stronger.

And Rodgers has a more experienced Shelvey, he has Allen instead of Spearing & Poulsen and has Sahin for Meireles

Hes bought Borini as replacement for Kuyt

I dont think there is as much of a difference as some are suggesting frankly

[Shaggy]

http://microlfc.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/being-brendan-is-rodgers-the-right-man-to-take-liverpool-forward/

‘Being: Brendan’ – Is Rodgers The Right Man To Take Liverpool Forward?

Brendan Rodgers now has more than a quarter of a league season under his belt as Liverpool manager and while many fans are satisfied with his performance, doubts are creeping into the minds of others. We’re yet to see Benitez-esque levels of polarization, but there are early signs that we’re heading in that direction.

Is Rodgers the right man to take Liverpool forward?

Some see him as a visionary. A dynasty-builder. A natural leader of men who will confidently drive Liverpool forward into a brighter future. (And who better to do this than such a noble paragon of the Passing Game?)

Some see him as nothing more than a plausible chancer; a bull**** artist who stood on the shoulders of Roberto Martinez at Swansea and sold a compelling story to impressionable and naive Americans who just don’t understand football. After all, “what’s Rodgers really changed at Liverpool since replacing Dalglish?”, they ask. (A fair bit, as it happens.)

Some have gone even further and labeled him an egomaniac: a Gervais/Coogan character made real; a self-centred narcissist who decorates his home with indulgent self-portraits, starts the day roaring at himself in the mirror (“I’m a tiger!”), before screeching off to Melwood in his faux-batmobile and returning home in the evening to -more than likely- masturbate over videos of himself masturbating.

To get a flavour for some of the disenchantment, have a read of the comments at the footer of this Echo article. Angry people. Foam spewing out of their angry mouths as they bash angrily away on their Lidl keyboards.

Such is the gamut of fans’ perception.

Initially Rodgers was immune to criticism due to the scale of mistakes made prior to his arrival but now the honeymoon period is beginning to wane. A couple of underwhelming performances have contributed to this but it’s mostly just a natural reflection of Rodgers starting to bear the weight of fans’ expectations in his own right.

So let’s get into it. Eleven games down, twenty seven to go. How’s he done so far?

Rodgers’ critics point to the Premier League table for evidence of his mediocrity and Liverpool’s lack of progress. It certainly doesn’t make pleasant viewing for the Ulsterman:




Rodgers has averaged 1.09 points per game and Liverpool currently lie 13th in the Premier League table.

To add a little context to this let’s quickly review the performance of other Liverpool managers of the modern era during their first eleven games.

Roy Evans’ points per game = 1.64



Gerrard Houllier’s first eleven games (in sole charge). Points per game = 1.73



Rafa Benitez’s first eleven games in charge: Points per game = 1.55



Roy Hodgson. Points per game = 1.36



Kenny Dalglish (second term as Liverpool manager). Points per game = 1.82

[IMG][/IMG]

POINTS PER GAME FROM FIRST ELEVEN MATCHES IN CHARGE:

1) Dalglish 1.82

2) Houllier 1.73

3) Evans 1.64

4) Benitez 1.55

5) Hodgson 1.36

6) Rodgers 1.09

Rodgers’ 1.09 points per game is a reflection of the fact that Liverpool have had their worst start to a season in 101 years.

It’s easy to see where the naysayers are gathering their ammunition isn’t it?

But the stats, as ever, don’t tell the whole story. There are mitigating factors which mustn’t be ignored: Rodgers arrived at a club struggling for confidence, both on the pitch and in the stands; a team bereft of form and goals which saw significant changes in personnel with senior players departing in the summer (Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi etc); an onerous opening batch of fixtures (facing last season’s Top 3 in his first 3 home games); an injury to the side’s most structurally important player (Lucas); a transfer window ‘misunderstanding’ causing Carroll to leave with no replacement; a slew of youngsters finding their feet in the team and all the incumbent upheaval of a new manager and staff bedding in to the working fabric of the club.

‘Transition’ barely scratches the surface. This is a club in convulsion, bewildered and vulnerable, struggling to retain a meaningful foothold in the modern landscape of European football after being eviscerated by Hicks and Gillette.

Liverpool fans used to feel immortal. No longer. Dalglish returned. An old hero fighting to win back old ground. His work prematurely curtailed by owners seeking more dynamism. Cue more change. More new players. More departures. More new backroom staff. More new systems. (Lucas Leiva joined Liverpool five years ago – he’s played under 4 different regimes. How can you build on such a quicksand?)

It’s into this chaotic arena that Brendan Rodgers has arrived. And he’s being chastised, written off even (in some quarters) for not sorting it all out within 10 league games!

Thankfully the doom-mongers are mostly casual and ignorant observers drawing superficial short-term conclusions, but there’s also some savvy fans that frankly should know better.

Like any manager Rodgers should be judged in context. He is facing a more difficult task than any Liverpool manager since Bill Shankly arrived in December 1959 and the reality is that he’s doing a lot right. Could he have done better? Yes, but that could be said about every manager in the game.

Correcting the course of a listing European football giant is a slow process. It’s like turning an oil tanker around – it takes time. The only thing fans can realistically hope to see during any renaissance is green shoots of recovery that augur well for the future.

And thankfully they are plentiful at Liverpool.

Forget the historic data and apocalyptic stats that are being served up each day by a gleeful and ghoulish media – the fairest way to measure Rodgers’ impact is to compare his Liverpool side to the one that immediately preceded his arrival.

Let’s do it.

(All below data is correct as of 12th Nov 2012 and applies to Premier League games only.)

Liverpool enjoy more possession under Rodgers. This season’s match average is 57.5% versus last season’s of 55.4%.

On average during a premier league game the ball is in play for 62.4 minutes. This means that Liverpool have the ball, in play, for 1 minute and 15 seconds more per game this season than they did last season.

And the benefits are twofold of course – our opponents have 1 minute and 15 seconds less to hurt us in each game. (This may not seem a lot, but if there are only 62 minutes in a game up for grabs, I’d rather Liverpool had that minute and a quarter than the opposition, wouldn’t you?)

This is a tangible, measurable benefit that Rodgers has brought to Liverpool’s game.

Liverpool create more chances under Rodgers. In total last season Liverpool created 484 chances, this season they’ve already created 143. This is a 2.1% increase. Not a vast improvement, but undoubtedly a step forward.

Liverpool pass the ball more under Rodgers & complete more passes. Last season Liverpool attempted to pass the ball 495 times per game on average. This season they attempt 515 passes. A 4.1% increase on last year. Because pass completion has increased vs last year by 3.1%, the overall result is that Liverpool successfully pass the ball 9.4% more under Rodgers than they did under Dalglish.

As we discussed in a previous article, whether more passes actually matter if they don’t lead to more goals is another debate entirely. (I’m personally of the opinion that -overall- they do and I like to watch a passing game, so for me this is a big positive though I accept that this ‘improvement’ isn’t as black and white in terms of its benefit to the team as the other points listed here.)

Liverpool are more clinical in front of goal under Rodgers. Last year Liverpool had to shoot an average of 12.3 times to score a goal. Under Rodgers this has improved and Liverpool now have to shoot 11.6 times. (This is almost entirely due to Suarez’s form, but Rodgers must take some credit here too – not only for retaining him at the club, but for keeping him motivated. Suarez is in the form of his career and Rodgers should take at least some credit for that.)

Liverpool pass the ball forward more under Rodgers. A common criticism of Rodgers’ preferred style of play is “What’s the point in having a pretty passing game if all the passes go square, or backwards?”.

This is a myth that’s being widely propagated and is simply not true. Under Rodgers Liverpool successfully pass the ball forward 11.3% more than they did last season under Dalglish. (Due largely to an improvement in forward passing accuracy, and not because of the sheer volume of passes attempted. This implies the players are picking their forward passes more shrewdly and placing them with more care, which aligns with the manager’s purist aims.)

Many observers have commented that Liverpool are controlling games more than they did last year and the above data offers some further insight into why that may be.

Liverpool aren’t winning games because they have the most threadbare forward line in the Premier League and while we’d all love to see a higher number in the ‘W’ column, it doesn’t mean we can’t applaud clear and measurable improvements elsewhere in the team’s play.

With the addition of the 3 players that Rodgers thinks his first team needs (presumably two of whom are forwards) the picture will look very different. And surely we have to wait until he has shaped his own side before we judge/lynch him?

Most Liverpool fans acknowledge that a top 4 spot is probably out of reach this season and would be satisfied with Liverpool improving on last year’s position. That equates to a league position of 5th, 6th or 7th.

What many fans seemingly haven’t been prepared to tolerate is the chain of patchy and inconsistent results that come hand-in-hand with that finishing league position.

And there’s the rub.

No fan wants to be told “things aren’t going to improve soon, so just deal with it” but in many respects that’s the current position at Anfield and it will remain so until January. In the interim Rodgers needs continued patience and support from the fans and he has demonstrated that he merits this support.

Of course, this leads on to another broader issue that we’ll discuss in more detail in the future: FSG need to back their man in January.

Rodgers needs significant and sustained investment in player recruitment and if FSG aren’t seen to fully support Rodgers they will face a ferocious fan backlash. Liverpool fans have heard enough holding statements and nebulous futurism. Hard cash, spent wisely, is the only thing that will propitiate the fans for the rest of the season.

Rodgers may or may not succeed in his Herculean task, but he’s shown promising signs in difficult early days.

[Lecter]

Oh I definatly think its better. Better than Newcastle too. Infact, I even put it on par with Arsenal and maybe just below spurs.

The trouble is that we seem to be doing a lot of new rebuilding all at the same time. As I said, we have these 4 youngsters who have been great this season for us. But they are learning on the job. Especially Sterling and Suso, who have essentially become first teamers all of a sudden.

I just think comparing the two starts isnt that fair. I dont know without looking. But did Roy have to play Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and the Derby in his first 11 games?

Roys first 11 games included Arsenal (H), City (A), United (A), Everton (A), Chelsea (H)