Rafa Watch

[Roboklopp]

I was so pissed off at the Boro result, I went to bed at 6pm in a strop on holiday in the Maldives ffs. I'd ****ing kill for that kinda level of stress & upset nowadays- events LFC & closer to home have both slumped massively since then.

[Rigadon]

I know mate - Torres being injured for a good portion of it didnt help

When Torres was injured, and we had Robbie Keane playing up front, we were top of the league (first 3 or 4 months of the season). True story.

[little dave hedgehog]

i watched the season review recently. it was incredible how far dirk kuyt carried us early in the season.

[G]

Home form under Rafa.

2004-2005: W12 D4 L3
2005--2006: W15 D3 L1
2006-2007: W14 D4 L1
2007-2008: W12 D6 L1
2008-2009: W12 D7 L0
2009-2010: W13 D3 L3

See that column marked 'D'

We were all hopping mad about them at the time along with the 2 holding midfielders in the home games we drew and various other things. He wasn't faultless but things were considerable better than they are right now.

He's not coming back though, right or wrong, he just isn't and that's that.

The main reasons why he isn't, namely Ayre, Gerrard, Carra I don't think a very good case can be made to say their current influence on the club is far better than Rafas would be if we shipped them out to bring him back.

As I've read a few times over the last few days, the great Bob paisley would say "let a players legs go on someone else's pitch". Would Carra and to a lesser extent Stevie still be around under Bob?

[cream]

i watched the season review recently. it was incredible how far dirk kuyt carried us early in the season.

He had a good engine.

[Fredo]

Yeah no chance Rafa will be back. Too many cunts in our fanbase won't want him back.

[RedReet]

See that column marked 'D'

We were all hopping mad about them at the time along with the 2 holding midfielders in the home games we drew and various other things. He wasn't faultless but things were considerable better than they are right now.

He's not coming back though, right or wrong, he just isn't and that's that.

The main reasons why he isn't, namely Ayre, Gerrard, Carra I don't think a very good case can be made to say their current influence on the club is far better than Rafas would be if we shipped them out to bring him back.

As I've read a few times over the last few days, the great Bob paisley would say "let a players legs go on someone else's pitch". Would Carra and to a lesser extent Stevie still be around under Bob?

No we weren't. Some of us could actually see the benefit of having a world class defensive midfielder along side a world class playmaker in the middle of the park. It wasn't that bizarre a concept. It wasn't until Andy ****y Gray went on about 2 defensive midfielders that the majority of people jumped on that bandwagon.

[Roboklopp]

Aye. That CM was one of the best in the world. You could gauge that by how we used to dominate possession, particularly in Europe.

It was more the attacking players that surrounded them that were the issue. Riera played well that 1st season, but he wasnt the real difference maker we needed on the left. Even at our best, we needed more quality game changers on the bench for when the Torres/Stevie/Dirk/Riera thing wasnt working or some of the above were injured. We just had Yossi who was fantastic, but we needed more depth & quality.

[G]

No we weren't. Some of us could actually see the benefit of having a world class defensive midfielder along side a world class playmaker in the middle of the park. It wasn't that bizarre a concept. It wasn't until Andy ****y Gray went on about 2 defensive midfielders that the majority of people jumped on that bandwagon.

Thats exactly it,Alonso beside Masher= quality,A holding midfielder,singular.Maybe you weren't but plenty of people moaned about playing Masher and Lucas alongside each other at home in games against the dross.

I know I didnt imagine all those gripes in the match threads at the time and Andy gray has **** all to do with it for me

[MrMichael]

Yeah no chance Rafa will be back. Too many cunts in our fanbase won't want him back.

Hang on, I'm going to take issue with that, not the first time you've said something like that in this thread. Why is anyone who doesn't want him back a "cunt"? That attitude, with all due respect, is ****ing terrible.

I get told an awful lot that Rafa gets a lot of undue stick from fans, that people don't give him enough respect and don't understand his achievements etc. Yet all I ever seem to read on here is people who, quite reasonably and rationally, say that they respect what he achieved but they also feel he had some faults and would rather we moved on, get jumped on and called c*nts. It actually really winds me up, especially as half the people who champion him now were people who I know for a fact were nowhere near as supportive of him during the final year of his tenure at the club. I have no desire at all to start pulling up old posts, but some of the revisionist stuff I read on here at times makes me want to.... and I was a fan of the guy ffs.

Seriously, great manager who had a great relationship with the fans, but he wasn't perfect by any means and it kinda makes me a bit sick to see people so willing to criticise players like Gerrard & Carra, who have given their whole careers to the club, and all sorts of other people, just to push their pro-Rafa agendas. Why can't there be some shades of grey in these debates, why can't we triumph Rafa's achievements while admitting his faults, included in which were, on occasion (and especially after Pako left), man management of some players. Hell on its very own, falling out with Pako was one of his biggest mistakes at LFC imo.

/rant

[Alex]

Ban Him!

Edit: Too be fair MrM, he didn't say people that didn't want him back are cunts. Just that there are a lot of cunts who don't want him back. I'm sure he is not calling everyone that doesn't want him to come back a cunt.

I said cunt too many times there.

[Phoenix07]

(At MrMichael, not Alex's post).

[Rich]

Hang on, I'm going to take issue with that, not the first time you've said something like that in this thread. Why is anyone who doesn't want him back a "cunt"? That attitude, with all due respect, is ****ing terrible.

I get told an awful lot that Rafa gets a lot of undue stick from fans, that people don't give him enough respect and don't understand his achievements etc. Yet all I ever seem to read on here is people who, quite reasonably and rationally, say that they respect what he achieved but they also feel he had some faults and would rather we moved on, get jumped on and called c*nts. It actually really winds me up, especially as half the people who champion him now were people who I know for a fact were nowhere near as supportive of him during the final year of his tenure at the club. I have no desire at all to start pulling up old posts, but some of the revisionist stuff I read on here at times makes me want to.... and I was a fan of the guy ffs.

Seriously, great manager who had a great relationship with the fans, but he wasn't perfect by any means and it kinda makes me a bit sick to see people so willing to criticise players like Gerrard & Carra, who have given their whole careers to the club, and all sorts of other people, just to push their pro-Rafa agendas. Why can't there be some shades of grey in these debates, why can't we triumph Rafa's achievements while admitting his faults, included in which were, on occasion (and especially after Pako left), man management of some players. Hell on its very own, falling out with Pako was one of his biggest mistakes at LFC imo.

/rant

I only critise Gerrard and Carragher for their role in ousting Benitez.

[Alex]

I only critise Gerrard and Carragher for their role in ousting Benitez.

Is this known as fact? I used to get annoyed with Arn because he held this belief as gospel truth. But ive never really seen anything to say it for sure. Only really internet talk.

Not saying its not the case.

[Darkon]

Hang on, I'm going to take issue with that, not the first time you've said something like that in this thread. Why is anyone who doesn't want him back a "cunt"? That attitude, with all due respect, is ****ing terrible.

I get told an awful lot that Rafa gets a lot of undue stick from fans, that people don't give him enough respect and don't understand his achievements etc. Yet all I ever seem to read on here is people who, quite reasonably and rationally, say that they respect what he achieved but they also feel he had some faults and would rather we moved on, get jumped on and called c*nts. It actually really winds me up, especially as half the people who champion him now were people who I know for a fact were nowhere near as supportive of him during the final year of his tenure at the club. I have no desire at all to start pulling up old posts, but some of the revisionist stuff I read on here at times makes me want to.... and I was a fan of the guy ffs.

Seriously, great manager who had a great relationship with the fans, but he wasn't perfect by any means and it kinda makes me a bit sick to see people so willing to criticise players like Gerrard & Carra, who have given their whole careers to the club, and all sorts of other people, just to push their pro-Rafa agendas. Why can't there be some shades of grey in these debates, why can't we triumph Rafa's achievements while admitting his faults, included in which were, on occasion (and especially after Pako left), man management of some players. Hell on its very own, falling out with Pako was one of his biggest mistakes at LFC imo.

/rant

Completely agree, considering writing something similar lately. I think it's a shame, and slightly ruins the memory of the man for me, that you can't be allowed to have a nuanced picture of the man without being put in the "Rafa haters category" (perhaps a bit harsh). It's a continuation from the time Rafa left us, where everybody was either put in the "RCDNW-brigade" or the "Rafa-haters" - and just seeing how the debate about his time here spurs the very same yet again is enough for me to not want him back - can't stand that anymore. I rate Rafa highly, but can also see (some) of his faults he made during his time here, and I don't understand why that is such a "vile" thing?