Rafa Watch

[Mattshark]

i kind of got the feeling that he wanted players to play to his rigid strategy, and the very idea of a player roaming out of position and confusing opposition defences [like arsenal and manure love to] would have meant detention and lines. we very rarely put teams to the sword.

I disagree he let both Gerrard and Garcia do that.

[Chris]

Seriously, great manager who had a great relationship with the fans, but he wasn't perfect by any means and it kinda makes me a bit sick to see people so willing to criticise players like Gerrard & Carra, who have given their whole careers to the club, and all sorts of other people, just to push their pro-Rafa agendas.

Yep, theres a lot of hypocrisy too. Some of the same people in uproar about how Rafa can be so disrespected by fans are running round internet forums etc slandering Carragher and Gerrard. The same people who claim it was disgraceful that Rafa got sacked after finishing 7th are some of the same ones running round wanting Kenny out because he'll finish 7th/8th and with a trophy or two. These people are just as bad as the haters, Andy Gray types they claim to be fighting against.

(I know I'll get a reply about Rafa never having the money Kenny had in a summer regarding the above and thats true but Kenny hasnt yet had the time Rafa had or the benefit of a prime Gerrard either so things work both ways).

It's seemingly now been decided that Gerrard hated him and wanted him out aswell. It's been decided that Gerrard just walked round the pitch not trying in Rafa's last season, this is the Steven Gerrard who was actually taking pain killing injections in his groin just so he could get on the pitch during Rafa's last season. Some display of hatred, putting his body on the line for him. And unsurprisingly a while down the line it took it's toll and he had to have groin surgery.

You have a load on here who think to support Rafa you have to loathe Gerrard and Carra and a load on TLW who think to support Gerrard and Carragher you have to loathe Rafa. It's so bizarre. I'm seen as a hater on here yet anyone on here is welcome to do a search on my posts about him when he was the manager and I supported him more than most. I just would rather someone different if we change managers and get a bit sick of his name being mentioned after every bad result as if it was all perfect under him. Think he made some **** decisions here and at Inter despite the problems at both clubs. He's lost his mojo a bit, I'd rather he attempted to get it back at another club first and if he loves us as much as people say then we'll have no problem getting him back in the future if he's going great again.

[Shaggy]

i kind of got the feeling that he wanted players to play to his rigid strategy, and the very idea of a player roaming out of position and confusing opposition defences [like arsenal and manure love to] would have meant detention and lines. we very rarely put teams to the sword.

I don't know, Rafa liked players like Garcia, Benayoun, tried for Jovetic, and when picking Gerrard on the right or off a striker he gave him a certain degree of freedom to roam. He was also adept at getting the best out of attacking players, such as Torres, Gerrard, Garcia, Kuyt, Yossi, Crouch etc.

[baitman]

I disagree he let both Gerrard and Garcia do that.

gerrard is no doubt a great player, and could cover almost every position on the pitch the trouble was he often tried to do this in matches. it obviously paid of in the west ham final, and the 2005 CL final [with magnificent contributions from Jamie and Didi, too].
the trouble with him, sometimes, has been his lack of awareness and self control. he would be played on the RW by rafa, so rafa could try other options across the middle. stevie would often come inside to be bossing the game and almost be taking the ball off his team mates, leaving them scratching their heads. the RW would then be left unmanned, preventing us stretching the opposition as we had no width or variation to our attack.

[CJ]

Yep, theres a lot of hypocrisy too. Some of the same people in uproar about how Rafa can be so disrespected by fans are running round internet forums etc slandering Carragher and Gerrard. The same people who claim it was disgraceful that Rafa got sacked after finishing 7th are some of the same ones running round wanting Kenny out because he'll finish 7th/8th and with a trophy or two. These people are just as bad as the haters, Andy Gray types they claim to be fighting against.

(I know I'll get a reply about Rafa never having the money Kenny had in a summer regarding the above and thats true but Kenny hasnt yet had the time Rafa had or the benefit of a prime Gerrard either so things work both ways).

It's seemingly now been decided that Gerrard hated him and wanted him out aswell. It's been decided that Gerrard just walked round the pitch not trying in Rafa's last season, this is the Steven Gerrard who was actually taking pain killing injections in his groin just so he could get on the pitch during Rafa's last season. Some display of hatred, putting his body on the line for him. And unsurprisingly a while down the line it took it's toll and he had to have groin surgery.

You have a load on here who think to support Rafa you have to loathe Gerrard and Carra and a load on TLW who think to support Gerrard and Carragher you have to loathe Rafa. It's so bizarre. I'm seen as a hater on here yet anyone on here is welcome to do a search on my posts about him when he was the manager and I supported him more than most. I just would rather someone different if we change managers and get a bit sick of his name being mentioned after every bad result as if it was all perfect under him. Think he made some **** decisions here and at Inter despite the problems at both clubs. He's lost his mojo a bit, I'd rather he attempted to get it back at another club first and if he loves us as much as people say then we'll have no problem getting him back in the future if he's going great again.

welcome back christopher may i be the first to say i missed you.

not a bad post i would take issue with the slandering part thouigh. isnt that just the same as what your accusing others of doing?

[Shaggy]

Going back to acknowledging Rafa's **** ups, I don't think anyone thinks he was perfect. In fact I know they don't, no manager is.

Keane was a **** up, a big one. Should never have been on his list. I'm never wholly convinced by this "Keane and Barry were meant to play together, not one without the other" stuff and also the possibility of Barry (who I think is a good player) playing on the left.

Aquilani was obviously a **** up with his injury and stuff but I think he's a good footballer and a good bit better than what we have now so I can kind of understand that one.

For me the most telling **** up was Milan Jovanovic, and was an indicator of how Benitez was possibly losing focus a bit. I know he came on a free and as such would command a bigger salary, but for him to be taking such hideous amounts of money out of the football club every week, with so little talent, was negligent. I have no idea how much Rafa was to blame for his salary - but I'm sure he must've had to at least rubber stamp it.

Sorry Rafa, but what the **** was Jovanovic all about.

I'd lump Joe Cole in too but it seems clear now he was signed by neither Rafa or Hodgson, but that cunt Purslow.

[dww]

I don't think you can really judge a transfer that was a stop gap/role player if the manager left. It worked out **** for us but may have been different for him with Rafa in charge.

[Shaggy]

Fair point, but to me it seemed indicative of things going a bit awry in terms of recruitment. On the evidence we did see, Jovanovic was absolutely dreadful. That said, Hodgson had him playing about 10 yards in front of Konchesky - a recipe for disaster if ever there was one

[RedReet]

TBF, if reports are true Real were after Jova too and if McClaren hadn't have got sacked when he did we could have got about £8m for him, again if reports were true.

[dww]

Fair point, but to me it seemed indicative of things going a bit awry in terms of recruitment. On the evidence we did see, Jovanovic was absolutely dreadful. That said, Hodgson had him playing about 10 yards in front of Konchesky - a recipe for disaster if ever there was one

My feeling is that towards the end there was really no way of being on top of everything, the power struggles behind the scenes basically made the club unmanageable. There were questionable decisions made for sure.

I think in the end the problem is that there are so many whatifs surrounding the Rafa reign. It makes it hard to assess many of the things that he did or that happened. Its easy to find an argument to fit most views.

[barnes10]

the thing that gets me is that im sure the likes of gerrard, carra and torres all underperformed in rafa's last season. i remember carra being woeful and gerrard being utterly disinterested. fair enough torres was injured half the time but when he was fit, he looked half arsed. rumours aside, what i saw with my eyes smacked of them undermining the manager who gave them the best years of their careers. that, unfortunately, is enough for me to discount them as 'legends' for our club. my opinion is that they actively undermined the manager and therefore they lose a huge amount of credit from me for that whatever they did on the pitch when they felt like it.

rafa's last season was better than the current season and he had to put up with what amounted to a mutiny from his leading players on top of the board room bollocks.

rafa's a complete legend. I'm mixed about him coming back but we massively shot ourselves in the foot with how he was treated. you back or sack a manager and we got that 50:50 wrong and we're paying for that now. if those around him, players and board alike, were half the bloke he is, we'd have won 2 or 3 leagues already.

[Chris]

the thing that gets me is that im sure the likes of gerrard, carra and torres all underperformed in rafa's last season. i remember carra being woeful and gerrard being utterly disinterested. fair enough torres was injured half the time but when he was fit, he looked half arsed. rumours aside, what i saw with my eyes smacked of them undermining the manager who gave them the best years of their careers.

This stuff annoys the **** out of me. Gerrard was taking pain killing injections to get on the pitch!! A problem that eventually had to be operated on.

Rafa said :

‘He’s got a pain in his groin and he has no power. He cannot kick long balls properly. It’s not too much, but it’s enough that he cannot play comfortably.’

And instead of getting it operated on at that time which was an option, he took the injections and played for us (and had big problems down the line unfortunately for Kenny). A disinterested player or just one playing in pain?

[Craig_H]

To be fair, Chris has a point there.

[barnes10]

hmmm didnt know that so yes you have a point.

carra hasnt played well for several seasons so his legs could have been going as long ago as rafa's last season. torres too hasnt been at his best since before then either so maybe his own injuries brought on his own career's downward spiral...

ok so i've changed my mind...

[Fredo]

BTW Darkon's and Mr Mr's stance is obviously fine, but there is a lot of venom reserved for Benitez by plenty of our own and it is that which is so utterly inexplicable. He is loathed by some of our own (just go on TLW) and I know in person Reds who by their own admission can't stand him and would "give it all up if he came back". That includes ST holders and armchair fans.

It's that attitude which I found completely and utterly incredible.