Rafa Watch

[Phoenix07]

Not at all. I can see his achievements in the cold light of day. Look at his record. It speaks for itself.

Heart ruling head does come into the performances we had. I can see an element of me wanting to believe we played lovely football, but in reality we played some great stuff, but equally we played out some boring 0-0's and the like.

On both sides, hearts rule over heads. Some won't even acknowledge his achievements whether others won't even hear a negative word said against him.

An example is the desire for his return without considering other options if they so wish for a change of manager. I'm like a parrot with this but some don't even consider Benitez to be a dividing figure who polarises opinion. They go along with their own views and expect everyone to conform whether it's for him or against him.

That's why I'm desperate for him to get the Real Madrid job. The sooner we can move on and acknowledge his achievements as a manager whilst he's doing well elsewhere the better.

[MrMichael]

You're probably right, but in my experience Benitez is routinely slaughtered by his haters (see previous post) for the Alonso stuff. I always ask....why aren't you giving him credit for a) signing him - the sort of player we could only have dreamed about - in the first place and b) getting about 5 full years out of him, which is fairly unusual for a top class foreign player.

We got a great shift out of him, bought him for £10m and sold him for £30m. Yet there are people out there not prepared to give Rafa an ounce of credit for any of it, only happy to slag him off for falling out with him and selling him for £30m.

See though Shaggy, you say all that about "haters" and people "not prepared to give him an ounce of credit", but I don't see any of that. Now maybe that's because I don't do twitter and I don't bother with other lfc forums since Talklfc went down, but I only really deal with what I see on here, and on here these days its the reverse of the way your portray it. Really, it is.

Rafa did great bringing Alonso to the club and getting several great seasons out of him. He also fell out with him (there were some odd rumours about that iirc) and tried to replace him with Gary Barry. Both those aspects are true, the good and the bad. Maybe elsewhere people only focus on the bad, but on here it seems like only the good gets voice. Why can't we have the balanced view, why can't people be allowed to think he was a good manager but acknowledge his faults without instant rebuttal, and not want him back without being "cunts"? The way you present it I almost get categorized as one of the "haters", and actually nothing could be further from the truth.

Looks what you've started MrM

Heh, I'm pretty sure I can't take credit for starting this debate, its been going on half a decade hasn't it?

[Dhav]

Frankly, Gerrard and Carragher are both idiots and I'm sick of their "Billy Big Bollocks I'm Mr Liverpool" attitudes. Our problem is that we have always had CEO's running the club who have pandered to the player's wishes, whether it was Parry consulting with Owen in 2004 or Purslow being too concerned about Carragher and Gerrard's (and possibly Torres') wishes in 2010. It's a case of the lunatics running the asylum. The single most important person at a football club is the manager. It's not the captain and its not the vice-captain. If the players are mutinous then you cut out the cancer and start again, you don't sack the manager to placate the players. Chelsea have had 7 managers in 7 years pandering to that philosophy. But when you have ignorant star-struck ****ers like Purslow running the club who frankly know **** all about the sport, that's what happens.

In the run up to Rafa getting the boot he refused to offer Carragher a new deal. Carragher was 32 and had a pretty dreadful season IIRC. And then just a day before the sale of the club to NESV was completed, Carragher, three months before his 33rd birthday, signed a lucrative long term deal. Suspicious circumstances to say the least. Well now they are reaping what they have sown.

I am grateful for what they've done for us in the past but they've shared in the glory and have been handsomely rewarded and remunerated for it. We don't owe either of them a living. One is a liability on the pitch and the other is only performing to an adequate level in about one in every 10 fixtures.

Carragher has been mentioned on here as a possible future Liverpool coach or even manager. No thanks. I don't want someone who has public bust-ups with teammates on the pitch, who seems to think buying British is best, a hoof-ball merchant who thinks he is actually a ball-playing maestro, as our manager. He can go and prove himself elsewhere first.

[Shaggy]

See though Shaggy, you say all that about "haters" and people "not prepared to give him an ounce of credit", but I don't see any of that. Now maybe that's because I don't do twitter and I don't bother with other lfc forums since Talklfc went down, but I only really deal with what I see on here, and on here these days its the reverse of the way your portray it. Really, it is.

I see loads of it. Twitter, other forums, mates in real life, season ticket holders, armchair fans. Loads. He is hated by plenty of people. And I don't understand it. Never have, never will.

[ronanm]

slowly coming round to the idea of rafa returning to LFC one day and thats not something i ever thought id say.

I am the same.

Still, I think the appointment of KD will adversely affect any chances RB might have had. Don't think FSG will let fans dictate this time (despite the fact there's an argument it's head AND heart!).

[Shaggy]

Rafa did great bringing Alonso to the club and getting several great seasons out of him. He also fell out with him (there were some odd rumours about that iirc) and tried to replace him with Gary Barry. Both those aspects are true, the good and the bad. Maybe elsewhere people only focus on the bad, but on here it seems like only the good gets voice. Why can't we have the balanced view, why can't people be allowed to think he was a good manager but acknowledge his faults without instant rebuttal, and not want him back without being "cunts"? The way you present it I almost get categorized as one of the "haters", and actually nothing could be further from the truth.

Genuinely no idea how you've leapt to that conclusion. I presented it by saying "see previous post", a post in which I clearly said your stance is fine and one that I have no issue with. I was referring to the Reds who hate him.

[Shaggy]

slowly coming round to the idea of rafa returning to LFC one day and thats not something i ever thought id say.

I am the same.

[G]

Completely agree, considering writing something similar lately. I think it's a shame, and slightly ruins the memory of the man for me, that you can't be allowed to have a nuanced picture of the man without being put in the "Rafa haters category" (perhaps a bit harsh). It's a continuation from the time Rafa left us, where everybody was either put in the "RCDNW-brigade" or the "Rafa-haters" - and just seeing how the debate about his time here spurs the very same yet again is enough for me to not want him back - can't stand that anymore. I rate Rafa highly, but can also see (some) of his faults he made during his time here, and I don't understand why that is such a "vile" thing?

[badpiggy]

You're probably right, but in my experience Benitez is routinely slaughtered by his haters (see previous post) for the Alonso stuff. I always ask....why aren't you giving him credit for a) signing him - the sort of player we could only have dreamed about - in the first place and b) getting about 5 full years out of him, which is fairly unusual for a top class foreign player.

We got a great shift out of him, bought him for £10m and sold him for £30m. Yet there are people out there not prepared to give Rafa an ounce of credit for any of it, only happy to slag him off for falling out with him and selling him for £30m.

I think Xabi appealed to a lot of LFC fans because he was clearly a great guy - real officer material, hard as ****, gave everything, was scared of noone, had plenty of skill and was an astonishing and fast passer of the ball. No ****in around with Xabi - crunching tackle on Fat Frank, win the ball, turn and get rid of it accurately either 5 yards or 50 yards away Lots struggled to see how we could possibly improve on the most complete midfielder we had in years, hence the dismay at Rafa wanting Gareth ****in Barry at his expense.

I don't hate Rafa at all though and I believe that he could do well with us now and I also believe that the time for him was right to go when he did. It had jst gone tits up. I'd love him to come back actually cos he's the best fit for us. But equally and confusingly, I'd love a complete fresh start but I don't know with who. Probably Klopp since Rafa himself rates him highly

Regarding Carra and SG - Carra is now a dead weight and possibly a malign influence in the club. The fact that he's a local lad, great servant etc means nothing. Sadly. I don't hate Carra but I love LFC and he's no help to us at all now. Give the job to Coates and let Carra have a laugh with Andy Carroll's girlfriend at the end of season bbq. As for SG... I'd still keep him but I supect that only someone like Rafa can keep his head in line. And play him where he's best.

[MrMichael]

Frankly, Gerrard and Carragher are both idiots and I'm sick of their "Billy Big Bollocks I'm Mr Liverpool" attitudes. Our problem is that we have always had CEO's running the club who have pandered to the player's wishes, whether it was Parry consulting with Owen in 2004 or Purslow being too concerned about Carragher and Gerrard's (and possibly Torres') wishes in 2010. It's a case of the lunatics running the asylum. The single most important person at a football club is the manager. It's not the captain and its not the vice-captain. If the players are mutinous then you cut out the cancer and start again, you don't sack the manager to placate the players. Chelsea have had 7 managers in 7 years pandering to that philosophy. But when you have ignorant star-struck ****ers like Purslow running the club who frankly know **** all about the sport, that's what happens.

In the run up to Rafa getting the boot he refused to offer Carragher a new deal. Carragher was 32 and had a pretty dreadful season IIRC. And then just a day before the sale of the club to NESV was completed, Carragher, three months before his 33rd birthday, signed a lucrative long term deal. Suspicious circumstances to say the least. Well now they are reaping what they have sown.

I am grateful for what they've done for us in the past but they've shared in the glory and have been handsomely rewarded and remunerated for it. We don't owe either of them a living. One is a liability on the pitch and the other is only performing to an adequate level in about one in every 10 fixtures.

Carragher has been mentioned on here as a possible future Liverpool coach or even manager. No thanks. I don't want someone who has public bust-ups with teammates on the pitch, who seems to think buying British is best, a hoof-ball merchant who thinks he is actually a ball-playing maestro, as our manager. He can go and prove himself elsewhere first.

Part of that is utter conjecture, the rest is hugely dismissive of 2 great servants to the club, including one of our greatest ever players. Where would Rafa have been without Gerrard? Remember Istanbul, it wasn't Gerrard who got our tactics (and team selection) hideously wrong in the first half, but it was him who dragged us by the scruff of our necks back into that game.

I'm not by any means arguing in favour of player power, but FFS, its not like Rafa himself didn't admit afterwards that it wasn't really possible for him to continue as manager at the time. All the off field stuff wasn't Gerrard and Carra's fault. The disastrous Robbie Keane and Aquilani transfers weren't their fault. Complete revisionism to argue that somehow Rafa's sacking was all about those 2 and nothing to do with a poor season on the pitch or the complete breakdown of Rafa's relationship with the boardroom.

Oh, and no, the manager isn't the most important person at a football club. Technically the chairman is, seeing as its him who gets to appoint and sack managers. But more than that, nobody, NOBODY is more important than the club as a whole. Certainly Gerrard and Carragher aren't, but neither is Rafa Benitez either, much though you wouldn't think it reading some posts on here at times.

[Kenneth]

Officer matterial. nice description.

[Shaggy]

Very nice description.

I have a major pining for him to come back. Not gonna happen, but it'd be immense. Think he could play til his mid 30s.

[Phoenix07]

Officer matterial. nice description.

Only Scott Parker deserves that description.

[CJ]

the club used to move great servants on and replace them with others who became great servants.

also todays great servants are multi millionaires so its not been a life of servitude really has it.

i thank them for all they have given but the top clubs realise when its time to move players on and that is part of the reason they stay top clubs

on Rafa loved him to bits still do. not perfect, part of me would love him back but he would be divisive. I think we need to stop looking backwards and look forwards that is how we will get to the top. (KLOPP)

[MrMichael]

the club used to move great servants on and replace them with others who became great servants.

also todays great servants are multi millionaires so its not been a life of servitude really has it.

i thank them for all they have given but the top clubs realise when its time to move players on and that is part of the reason they stay top clubs

on Rafa loved him to bits still do. not perfect, part of me would love him back but he would be divisive. I think we need to stop looking backwards and look forwards that is how we will get to the top. (KLOPP)

Fair enough, can't disagree with any of that. Fwiw I wasn't arguing for keeping the likes of Carra purely for his status, just for a bit of respect when discussing roles in previous events.

Plus of course, getting to "the top with Klopp" rhymes so its gotta work