Lucas

[RedReet]

I was nearly about to bite too.

[rudedog]

I'll see your Lucas Hyperbole and raise you a John Doe hyperbollocks

[Daniel 7]

I'm so tempted to bring the whole thread to a close by using the "end of" command.

Ok, I will.

Lucas is a better player now than he used to be, he's one of the best defensive midfielders in the Premier league, and if he continues to get better at the same rate, he'll be amongst the best in Europe in a couple of years.

He also plays for ****ing Brazil. BRAZIL!

So, to conclude, Lucas is great. End of.

[JohnDoe]

And strangely enough, Lucas' defensive statistics have always looked great. Even two years ago when he was "****e" and not rated by most Liverpool fans in Rafa's last season, he was one of the "top tacklers" in the league as well as one of the most "accurate passers".

So did Lucas really improve, or did his perception improve?

10% former, 90% latter.

(End of)

[Craig_H]

Your tagline is the most apt of any i've seen on here

[BringbackBiscan]

And strangely enough, Lucas' defensive statistics have always looked great. Even two years ago when he was "****e" and not rated by most Liverpool fans in Rafa's last season, he was one of the "top tacklers" in the league as well as one of the most "accurate passers".

So did Lucas really improve, or did his perception improve?

10% former, 90% latter.

(End of)

You're quite correct. Most have realised just how wrong they were, the boy has always been boss.

[fidget]

[RedReet]

That's so **** it's brilliant.

[Daniel 7]

And strangely enough, Lucas' defensive statistics have always looked great. Even two years ago when he was "****e" and not rated by most Liverpool fans in Rafa's last season, he was one of the "top tacklers" in the league as well as one of the most "accurate passers".

So did Lucas really improve, or did his perception improve?

10% former, 90% latter.

(End of)

I said end of first. That renders your argument and subsequent end of useless.

I don't know how you can be bothered to be so negative about one of our success stories. He's done a tremendous job in challenging circumstances.

Sure he might have been near the top of stats, but the tackling stats in his formative seasons didn't take into account the number of rash or ill advised tackles he made. They may have accounted for one or two tackles in a game where he made 20 or 30 successful tackles, but the bad one may have resulted in a penalty or dangerous free kick. Point is, he's ironed those out and looks accomplished in the tackle now. His passing is accurate and not limited to sideways or backwards passes, percentage passes if you will. He plays with assurance and confidence. He's probably about 3 years away from his peak as well - he's a brilliant prospect for years to come. He's rated enough by the biggest generator of skilful midfielders in international football to get regular starts already......

So yeah. End of

[JohnDoe]

You're quite correct. Most have realised just how wrong they were, the boy has always been boss.

The boy has always been a very hard working midfielder, a top pro and a sound lad who was easily coached, who stuck his foot in, played the safe pass and closed players down.

These are all sound attributes. However, a world class player it does not make, nor some sort of untouchable player who can not be replaced. Players like Lucas Leiva are not rare commodities. He does not possess any exceptional talents or any exceptional ability, other than tackling maybe, the most overrated stat in the game. Anything he has supposedly shown in Brazil did not translate to the faster game here.

Mascherano leaving was the main reason Lucas started to "shine". He was less expected to perform offensively and he had an easier, more specialized role. He was also surrounded by ****. There were so many games we were absolutely atrocious in during the Bodge days, and Lucas was the only one who warranted any credit in those games because he was an isle of consistency in his hard working approach. That got him the votes.

And so the Lucas myth of "vast improvement" grew. Yes, he did get better, he got more experienced, he grew more confident (probably because he just started to get appreciated over the things he has always done), but to suggest he has developed into a world class "special" player in a pseudo fairy tale story of the underdog that everyone loves to wank themselves silly over?

I ain't buying that.

[BringbackBiscan]

When you say Masch left and he shined in an easier more specialized role, you mean the DM role yeah, the one that Mascherano is widely classed as world class in, and he adds nothing to the attack.

Every team needs a good defensive midfielder, and Lucas isn't just good in that role, he's great in it.

[Daniel 7]

@JohnDoe

I never made that point though, I never said he was world class yet, but he might end up being.

He's getting better with experience - there would be something wrong if he wasn't. He's growing into a role, and not looking any worse than any of the supposed top boys in defensive midfield. Is it wrong to be hopeful that maybe we might have found a diamond after the **** of the last two seasons? I admire him - a lot of other players would have wilted under the pressure. Look at N'Gog - he was expected to do similair in covering for our top players during a very difficult season. He couldn't hack it and ended up a shell. It says a lot about the character and raw ability that Lucas had and is now developing. He's taking his chance. Others haven't.

[ashey]

Lucas created 10 chances in 10 games, Parker 6 in 8 according to those stats.
Although not conclusive, it demonstrates the improvement in his offensive game, & somewhat dispels the myth he is "just" a defensive midfielder.

[BubbaZanetti]

Hippobowl

[Chazza]