Lucas

[Alex]

People Lucas bashing really winds me up when it shouldn't.

[JohnDoe]

So your never going admit he is a good player at any point?

I'll admit he's become a good player, someone I see in a team winning trophies, when he shows the ability to do the things I've mentioned and consider him to be mediocre in. I'm not slow to praise Lucas when he puts in a good performance. We don't need to win the league to make me say "Lucas is great and should be in the first team".

But he needs to be better in what I've mentioned which is crucial for a CM in a top side.

[James P]

And yet no title winning team has ever had a strictly ball winning defensive midfielder in their line up who didn't have the capability to effectively moving the ball against an organized defence.

For those of us who can remember football in the last century, I would suggest that Roy Keane might be the player who disproves your point.

When Kenny wins the league with Lucas as a first choice player, I'll put my hand up and admit I was wrong.

He won't.

And it's all Lucas's fault that we're not winning the league?

[JohnDoe]

For those of us who can remember football in the last century, I would suggest that Roy Keane might be the player who disproves your point.

Keane was an amazing two-way player up until the last couple of years in his career when he started to lose his engine.

And it's all Lucas's fault that we're not winning the league?

No. Did I say that?

[Alex]

Yes, essentially you are. You said we will never win the league with a player like Lucas in the team. Have you not?

[rudedog]

And yet time will say I'm right unfortunately.

I'll say this: We will never win the league, or come close to winning the league, with Lucas or any comparable player with comparable skills as a consistently first choice player at CM. To win the league, you have to consistently break down inferior sides, week in, week out. Most of the season, you're going to face those inferior teams. Lucas contributes nothing as a CM, absolutely nothing, to a team chasing a goal in that scenario.

You can praise his work rate and his tackling, but bottom line, he won't help get you those points in the table and turn 0-0's into 2-0's. Not only does he not help, he's a hidden liability in our efforts to do so.

Lucas will continue to look good against top teams when we have less of the possession and he will continue to be ineffective in games we dominate possession.

Nonsense - as long as Lucas is keeping possession and making himself available for recieving the ball, he is not 'contributing nothing'. Watch Argentina's famous 25 pass goal against Serbia and see how many times Mascherano was involved (4 passes I think)- none of these passes were incisive or set up a direct chance but you can't deny he didn't contribute to the goal.

[JohnDoe]

Yes, essentially you are. You said we will never win the league with a player like Lucas in the team. Have you not?

Yes, but I did not blame him for past failures.

[Alex]

So your saying we can win the league with him in the team then?

[Norbs]

For those of us who can remember football in the last century, I would suggest that Roy Keane might be the player who disproves your point.



And it's all Lucas's fault that we're not winning the league?

Claude Makelele played that role and won the league with Nantes, Madrid and Chelsea. The bulk of his career between 2000-2008 he scored a whopping 3 league goals in 240 appearances yet his teams won 4 titles (twice at Madrid and twice with Chelsea)

I'm sure someone will point out that he was playing in teams that were full of talent but that is precisely the point. I'm pretty sure that Makelele has always been applauded for the selfless work he gave to the team and his attacking record has never been used as a stick to beat him with.

I'd also stick my head on the block and say that had Torres stayed on form and remained focused, and had Gerrard been fit then we would have had had a really decent chance at the league THIS season

REINA

JOHNSON SKRTEL AGGER ENRIQUE

ADAM LUCAS

GERRARD SUAREZ MAXI

TORRES '10


Allowing me Enrique and Adam as new signings who may or may not have been in the frame, this was actually the team that Kenny would've started this season with. I can't see any reason why this team wouldn't win the league and rip a hole in every other English team.

[RedReet]

I don’t think he even believes it himself to be honest. I don’t know why I took the bait, but he obviously gets some kick out of this which is why he has contributed nearly the most posts in a Lucas thread. How many ways is there to say someone is ****?

Not to mentioning him lauding Henderson for displaying all the attributes Lucas excels at, but should be taken for granted when it comes to Lucas.

[JohnDoe]

So your saying we can win the league with him in the team then?

No. Not at his current standard.

He has also only been a consistent starter for a little over two years, in seasons we weren't close to the top, due to many issues rather than one. How could I "blame" him for not winning the league in those seasons?

[JohnDoe]

Not to mentioning him lauding Henderson for displaying all the attributes Lucas excels at, but should be taken for granted when it comes to Lucas.

Henderson is much better than Lucas with the ball, and will develop into a better player. Lucas does not excel at the things I've praised Henderson for. Anyone who thinks Lucas does what Henderson is capable of is in my opinion, wrong.

Anyways, I gotta go. Later.

[Roboklopp]

Henderson is much better than Lucas with the ball, and will develop into a better player. Lucas does not excel at the things I've praised Henderson for. Anyone who thinks Lucas does what Henderson is capable of is in my opinion, wrong.

Anyways, I gotta go. Later.

Some kid's party needs its clown.

[Alex]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X2u2cdvJSg"]Anchorman - YouTube[/ame]

[Mattshark]

Barry: Way more well rounded and better moving the ball forward.
United: Never play a strict ball winner in their team. I remember Phil Neville getting a run in the team a few years ago but that's about it.
Arsenal: Have won **** all with Song in the team. Or with Denilson.
Spurs: See Barry.
Chelsea: Have won and will win **** all with Mikel as first choice player.
Barcelona: Not comparable with Lucas in any shape, way or form.
Real Madrid: See Barca.

It's not the position I have a problem with, it's the ability, or lack of it, in a defensive midfielder who's not good at initiating offense. City are a better without De Jong.

Erm Chelsea won the league with Mikel as their holding mid, oh and the league with Makalele in that role.

Busquets is hardly renowned for his attacking play is he?

Arsenal won plenty with Viera didn't they?