Jamie Carragher

[Mostar]

He was never really quick but he's slowed down even more and it shows.

Phasing out process should start now. He clearly passed his peak and lack of agility is beginning to hurt us (2 mistakes in 2 games).

Still good player but we should turn corner and start fresh.

[Norbs]

He hugged a player in the box, hence the penalty.

Worst part is that the hug gave him no advantage, he'd have had just as much chance by going shoulder to shoulder

[Craig_H]

He really isn't great at anything but his heart and passion makes or made him to an excellent defensive defender.

So, he isnt great at anything, but he's excellent at being a defensive defender?

Is great massively different to excellent?

And also, i'm ****ed off with these defensive defenders, i much prefer the swash-buckling, flair type attacking defenders, who do step overs, flicks, tricks and score hat tricks.

[Craig_H]

I've not seen the Stoke game because I'm away from home at the moment... But I'm under the impression that everybody is blaming the defeat on Carragher ?

I'm also blaming it on bizarre luck, Jordan Henderson's inability to score a one-on-one despite 3 attempts, the wind, the rain, Mark Clattenburg and the Great Gatsby.

[McDermotX]

So, he isnt great at anything, but he's excellent at being a defensive defender?

Is great massively different to excellent?

And also, i'm ****ed off with these defensive defenders, i much prefer the swash-buckling, flair type attacking defenders, who do step overs, flicks, tricks and score hat tricks.

Yes, Franco Baresi was a right showboating fecker

[Slinky Skills]

Fair enough he's getting on and has lost some pace but he is still our best defender and we don't concede as much when he is in the team.

He doesn't make many **** ups in all fairness, if it was Agger that had ****ed up then no one would be complaining about it because everyone loves Agger, you only hear people complaining when it's Carragher that ****s up.

Dropping him completely is not the right thing to do, as for Coates he's come to a new club and most of us have probably never seen him play so to ask someone young like him to step up to the plate in place of Carragher is nonsense.

If Carragher is making error after error week after week (which he isn't) then people's calls for him to be dropped will be justified.

[Craig_H]

Fair enough he's getting on and has lost some pace but he is still our best defender and we don't concede as much when he is in the team.

He doesn't make many **** ups in all fairness, if it was Agger that had ****ed up then no one would be complaining about it because everyone loves Agger, you only hear people complaining when it's Carragher that ****s up.

Dropping him completely is not the right thing to do, as for Coates he's come to a new club and most of us have probably never seen him play so to ask someone young like him to step up to the plate in place of Carragher is nonsense.

If Carragher is making error after error week after week (which he isn't) then people's calls for him to be dropped will be justified.

Whilst i'm not advocating sending Carra to the slaughter house just yet, in fairness, he has made a mistake in consecutive games now and both have cost us a goal.

[Mostar]

I'm also blaming it on bizarre luck, Jordan Henderson's inability to score a one-on-one despite 3 attempts, the wind, the rain, Mark Clattenburg and the Great Gatsby.

[Corndog]

I feel Coates will feature significantly this season perhaps not for another month or so as he settles in but his accolades seem to speak for himself, i admitt i've only seen live footage of him with Uruguay but from what i saw he has all the attributes to succeed in the prem, he has the potential to be world class, he is 21, i don't think Carragher will be able to stave off the competition for much longer. The loss of leadership is perhaps the biggest worry i've always felt carra is more of a leader on the pitch than even Gerrard who is of course the 1st choice captain. Nevertheless Adam seems to exhibit leadership qualities as does Agger so hopefully those two remain fit.

[Redspin]

I don't understand the call for the inclusion of Coates; the guy has just arrived to a new country, a new language, a new league and is yet to play a single minute of first team football for the club.

I think the centre of defence is not something you can swap, change or rotate - especially if we are going from the first four games of the season. Carragher's role is to defend, to stop the ball going in our net and to get in the way of the ball if it's going in the direction of the net. This, he does like no other player we have.

He's been a student of the game and has learnt his defensive game from the full back positions and listening to Houllier and Benitez. He's been instrumental in organising our defensive line for just under a decade and is one of the first names on the team sheet and forms the spine of our team.

Yes, he's lacking pace - it didn't affect Hyypia's game. Yes, he's prone to punting the ball long - but he's not in the team to be our spring board for attack - if we want the ball to be taken out of defence, give it to Agger. Carragher's job is to defend and defend he does.

I'd agree he needs to be replaced - but at the end of the season; give Coates a season to learn and some playing time in the Carling Cup and FA Cup (dependent on opposition), let's see first hand how good he is and then have a full pre-season to bed in a new central defender.

Well I'll eat my own liver if the Copa America Young Player of the Tournament isn't a better option than the Hoofmeister.

He's been a penalty-kick waiting to happen for the past couple of years now and should be put out to grass.

I watched the game live on TV over here and he was at it all game long with the aimless hoofing forward - and Carroll was still on the bench.

The penalty was a farce and I feared the worst as soon as the ball got anywhere near the hapless Carragher.

He's been a good servant - never one of our better centre-backs in the period I've been watching Liverpool, but adequate - and now he should be eased out

[Arn]

Fair enough he's getting on and has lost some pace but he is still our best defender and we don't concede as much when he is in the team.

He doesn't make many **** ups in all fairness, if it was Agger that had ****ed up then no one would be complaining about it because everyone loves Agger, you only hear people complaining when it's Carragher that ****s up.

Dropping him completely is not the right thing to do, as for Coates he's come to a new club and most of us have probably never seen him play so to ask someone young like him to step up to the plate in place of Carragher is nonsense.

If Carragher is making error after error week after week (which he isn't) then people's calls for him to be dropped will be justified.

He is making big errors week after week now. That is the problem. It is not only this season. He made error after error in many games last season even after we sacked Roy.

If he only made errors sometimes then no one would say that he should be dropped because then he would have earned his place in the team.

As it is now someone else need to get a chance because his mistakes is a big problem. He isn't earning his place in the starting XI.

Agger is our best central defender by a mile right now and deserve the credit he gets. He got a lot of **** when he was out injured a lot. Then many of us wanted to sell him.

Carra don't deserve any credit right now. He will get it when he deserves it. What he deserves is to get benched. If he then is good in training etc and play very good without making big mistakes then he would deserve his place in the starting XI again.

As I said. He don't deserve a place in the starting XI right now.

[The Birdman]

Do we honestly think in the pace and power of the Premier League we will finish top 4 with a 34 year old centre back playing every week as first choice in a side with attacking fullbacks??

I dont, Carra is a proper, undispuitable legend but time catches up with everyone.
I dont buy this 'he's our organiser' bollocks either. Our defence was organised before he became a fixture in it and it will be after he has stopped being a regular.

I'm not anti Carra i just honestly think we need to start preparing for life after him

[Craig_H]

Isnt signing a young CB an example of us doing exactly that?

[BootRoom]

That’s a fair post. I’ll be honest, I wanted rid of Carra before Rafa came in because he wasn’t good enough at full back and the long balls were infuriating. It was acceptable when we were winning, like the treble year when Owen and Heskey and even Fowler were on form and compensating. Towards the end of Houllier’s tenure though Carra epitomized everything that was wrong our team and our style, so I wanted a new start. Playing to Carra’s strengths and putting him back in the centre was a great decision by Rafa and under his guidance he performed as you say as good as any other CB in the league. Like all footballers though, age has caught up with him and he’s not the player he once was. Watching him at times last year and this season I’ve been thinking that we’d maybe be stronger without him, that Agger and Skrtel might be the way forward. Who knows, maybe that might still be the case, maybe if Agger can get a run of games injury free and Skrtel get his confidence back they could form a formidable partnership, but on current form we need Carra back. It’s maybe a sad reflection on the club at the minute and hopefully we can rectify it in the transfer window, but sadly that’s the way it is at the minute. As much as I’ve cursed at Carra over the past 18 months, I honestly think if he has of been playing alongside Agger for the majority of games, and we were able to keep a consistent back 4, then his age wouldn’t have been as much of an issue and we’d have been a lot sounder defensively. Unfortunately injuries have deprived us of that opportunity and consequently all the chopping and changing has exasperated the weaknesses in more or less all our defenders, not just him.

**** me, that wasn’t even the point I wanted to make. Basically I just wanted to say that I’ve never been Carra’s number 1 fan, but some of the crap people are saying about him is ridiculous now. Despite what people might think of him as a person now, you can’t deny what he’s helped the club achieve over the years. Ultimately it hasn’t been enough, but in pure footballing terms over the past 20 there are a few more players at fault than him for not delivering no.19.

The first part of your post sums up why I don't consider Carragher to be a legend. Prior to moving to centre back he was just really a limited full back. Then playing alongside Hyppia/Agger and behind Hamman/Masch in a defensively orientated system made him more useful, but for how many seasons has he really been good at centreback? And how much of that good form stems more from other players making him look better than he is? The second bolded part of your post touches on this.

People bang on as if he's been a top class player for 15 years when he's been good for nowhere near that.

Coupled to the fact that in my opinion, being a legend rquires a certain amount of technical ability, which Carragher just doesn't have.

[RichC]

for my mind Carra has been an excellent servant to the club but the time is now coming that he should be phased out, he's always given his best when he's played and I don't think it's quite the end of the line for him but I think that the time of him being an automatic starter is likely to be over sooner rather than later.