Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Nicey]

Maybe someone should design a simple number 7 on red background that everyone can print and put in car and house windows to show support for Luis? Or that silhouette that the players had on the T-Shirts today.

Something to visually show support for Luis.

Can I buy those T shirts at the LFC shop

[little dave hedgehog]

When they say published is that in the public domain or that's when they'll be released to the club, because if it's the latter that's a disgrace.

i believe it would be illegal to have an appeal hearing without giving the defense a discovery period and furnishing them with the appropriate materials first. i'm assuming it means that's when the official report will be available to anyone not involved in the case. otherwise why give a 14 day grace period? clearly it's so that the defense can plan properly.

[Havors]

You said it happens all the time. Why don't you point to a few examples where the FA has uncovered criminal behaviour and done nothing about it.

Did Marlon King get a ban after going to jail for ABH? Or any of the players convicted of death by dangerous driving?

[Darkon]

Luis Suarez deserves Liverpool FC’s support, says Kenny Dalglish

LIVERPOOL FC manager Kenny Dalglish has insisted the club stand united behind Luis Suarez and will not be divided.

Dalglish said the backing shown by the players wearing t-shirts supporting Suarez was reflected throughout the club.

“I think the boys showed their respect and admiration for Luis with wearing the T-shirts,” said the Scot.

“It is a great reflection of the man as a character, a person and a footballer that the boys have been so supportive and so have the supporters.

“He has earned that. He deserves it and we will always stand beside him.

“They will not divide the football club, no matter how hard they try.”

Suarez also received support from Wigan manager Roberto Martinez who, while not being able to comment on the incident which led the striker's charge, offered an explanation of the difficulties foreign players sometimes have adapting to a new country.

“It is difficult to comment on that particular incident but in general you arrive to the British game and it is a culture shock,” said the Spaniard, who first came to Wigan as a player in 1995.

“Believe me there is no right or wrong in understanding your culture.”

“You are seen doing something wrong and you don’t think you are doing anything wrong because your background and your culture and the way you live back in your country it is nothing wrong.

“It is the same when British people go abroad and could upset people.

“The problem is where you draw the line.

“We are playing in England and you need to understand what is right and wrong but you need to understand cultures bring a little bit of misunderstanding if it is an honest mistake.”

[Darkon]

Check Reina's critique:

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=2169198

Can't be arsed c/p it twice :P

[Lecter]

Liverpool face Luis Suarez racism row dragging on until late in the season

Liverpool may have to wait until February before launching an appeal against the eight-match ban imposed on their striker Luis Suárez by the Football Association.

By Henry Winter and Chris Bascombe

11:00PM GMT 21 Dec 2011





The written judgment explaining the findings of the Independent Commission, which issued the severe punishment against the South American for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra, is not likely to be published until mid-January.


Only when Liverpool have received the transcript from the chairman of the commission, Paul Goulding QC, can they consider whether to take further action. That is when the 14-day deadline to challenge the conclusions will be triggered.


The public debate on Suárez is so far based only on the verdict, not the evidence, which is why Liverpool believe Goulding needs to publish quickly. The FA did promise on Wednesday to print all details on its website when it eventually receives them from Goulding.


The possible one-month delay means the saga is certain to drag on towards the end of the season. It is inconceivable an appeal will not follow given the strength of feeling on Merseyside. However, Liverpool will then run the risk of seeing the ban extended even longer.


The FA reserves the right to increase the penalty on the Uruguay striker should he request a new panel to convene to reassess the evidence.



There is also a possibility that Liverpool will face an additional charge, with United considering a complaint about the wording of their rivals’ strongly-worded response, which criticised Evra, to the verdict.

There was at least some relief for Suárez last night when Merseyside police confirmed that the FA’s judgment will not lead to a criminal investigation similar to that affecting Chelsea captain John Terry.

The police will not act unless a complaint is made, and Evra has made no representations about the Oct 15 incident.

Liverpool’s belligerent response to the FA’s guilty verdict, which also landed Suárez with a £40,000 fine, has not softened in the last 24 hours.

The manager, Kenny Dalglish, the club’s American owners and entire playing squad are as one in their rejection of the independent panel’s findings.

While most of English football’s representative bodies, including the Professional Footballers’ Association, welcomed the FA's tough stance on racism, Liverpool’s players took the unprecedented step of releasing a statement of their own.

They also wore T-shirts sporting Suárez’s image and No 7 ahead of their Premier League fixture with Wiganon Wednesday night. The players’ statement read: “Luis Suárez is our team-mate and our friend and as a group of players we are shocked and angered that he has been found guilty by the FA.

“We totally support Luis and we want the world to know that. We know he is not racist.

“We are a squad of many different nationalities and backgrounds. All of us support the club’s commitment to fighting racism. All of us accept there is no place in the game for any form of discrimination.

“As a group of players we totally support the Kick it Out Campaign.

“We have lived, trained and played with Luis for almost 12 months and we don’t recognise the way he has been portrayed. “We will continue to support Luis through this difficult period, and as a popular and respected friend of all his team-mates, he will not walk alone.”

Liverpool know there is a danger of the club becoming increasingly isolated in English football, especially given the response of the PFA, but are adamant that they will stand by their player.

Gordon Taylor, the PFA’s chief executive, who tried to bring the two clubs together in the immediate aftermath of the racism allegation, said the FA was beyond reproach. Taylor said: “This was an independent commission experienced in law and football and they must have had compelling evidence, and it sends out a very strong message to the rest of the world.

“I understand the point about cultural differences but if you come to this country all players have to abide by not just the laws of the game but the laws of the land as well. Referring to someone’s skin colour has got to be offensive — it’s self-evident.

“This is a timely reminder for the FA, the PFA and the clubs to continue education programmes, particularly for players coming from abroad: it is never right to make reference to a person’s skin, colour or nationality.”

The FA knew there was little prospect of the issue reaching a conclusion with the announcement of its verdict. Although the FA has received plenty of support for its response, Liverpool continue to believe a witch-hunt has gained momentum without the full facts being made public.

Most of the criticism the FA has received beyond Merseyside has come from those querying the wisdom of a £40,000 fine for a player who earns nearly double that a week. The FA points out that money goes into grass-roots projects.

[Exiled_red]

i believe it would be illegal to have an appeal hearing without giving the defense a discovery period and furnishing them with the appropriate materials first. i'm assuming it means that's when the official report will be available to anyone not involved in the case. otherwise why give a 14 day grace period? clearly it's so that the defense can plan properly.

Having since read the article they suggest that it might be a month before the report is completed, i.e. even available to the club. The suggestion is that it may be a month before the club gets the report, then a further 14 days for them to look at it and decide what they do (as the 14 days to decide if we appeal only begins when the club get the report).

IF this is true then it's a disgrace as in case that they have admitted is very difficult they have labelled Suarez guilty but will not explain/justify the decision (even to the player or the club) for a month. They have left Suarez to face all the abuse without explaining anything I think that is disgraceful from the FA.

[Reece]

Liverpool have just posted a link on their FB page to the documentary he did in WC 2010 in South Africa.

Said it before but I'm loving the level of support from everyone at the club

[Darkon]

For the non-fb people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlLt5sMc4wU

[Red_hot]

I think the whole thing is quite complex. I'm not sure what I think.

If there was say, 5 brothers in a family in South America the most 'tan' is likely to be referred to as 'negrito'. It's a term of endearment. However, I find it hard to believe that the context in which Suarez used this term was friendly. They were opposing players having a nark. I'm not saying he's racist before anyone starts, I just don't think it's as black and white as some are making out.

Football is full of hypocrisy. Everyone wants to stamp out racism until it's one of their team accused of it.

[Sadgeek]

Aye this was good too.

17.02 Here's a lengthy email from Tim Crowley:

E-mail Now I'm not a legal professional, so I stand to be corrected, but it would seem to me that the FA have not stated either the charge or the verdict very well. The original charge is that: "'It is alleged that Suárez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.'" Now yesterday's statement makes clear that the verdict is that "Mr Suárez used insulting words towards Mr Evra". These insulting words "included a reference to Mr Evra's colour".

What do we make of this? Note that the reference to "behaviour" is not part of the verdict. The emphasis then is on the words used by Suárez, not his behaviour: on the 'what', not the 'how' (so the issue of 'how he said what he said', as James Lawton puts it the Independent, is irrelevant).

The key question, then, is this: What were the insulting words? Whatever they were, it is stated that they included a reference to colour. The one acknowledged reference to Evra's colour came in the context of a question that Suárez asked Evra. Just to be clear, according to the FA statement, the reference to colour is not in itself the 'insult'.

It presumably influenced the extent of the punishment, but not necessarily the initial verdict. What this means is that the FA must show evidence of insulting words, apart from the use of a word referring to Evra's colour, to support their verdict.

In other words, the issue, as it has been set by the FA in their statement, is not about whether or not Suárez used the word 'negro', or 'negrito'; nor is it about his demeanour when he used the word. It is rather about whether the reference to Evra's colour came in the context of verbal abuse.

I would expect Liverpool FC should have no difficulty acquiring the services of a team of legal professionals who should be able easily to destroy the FA's case, and overturn the verdict.

The odd thing is, if it is true that Evra did indeed utter the words “Don’t touch me, you South American”, allegedly in Spanish, then the case is far clearer that Evra used insulting words which included a deprecatory reference to Suárez's background, that could be considered tantamount to racist abuse, i.e., of treating another person less favourably on grounds of ethnic or national origin.

Moreover, if Evra did say that in Spanish, then the context is a conversation in Spanish, within which the use of 'negro' or 'negrito' needs to be properly understood. And that would invalidate the argument that Suárez should have been aware of the potentially offensive connotations of the use of the English word 'negro' in the UK or other English-speaking countries.

All fair enough, but as Mr Crowley points out, he's not a legal professional. If this had gone to a criminal investigation, then the courts findings would have been based on evidence (of which there appears to be none), however as it was an FA hearing, then it is based purely on "the probability" ie evidence be damned, we're gonna hang you whatever you say...

[BigChief]

The written judgment explaining the findings of the Independent Commission, which issued the severe punishment against the South American for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra, is not likely to be published until mid-January.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8971768/Liverpool-face-Luis-Suarez-racism-row-dragging-on-until-late-in-the-season.html

What a complete farce.

Illegal? Surely Grabbiner can have it on our desks by tomorrow?

[Vermilion]

I think the whole thing is quite complex. I'm not sure what I think.

If there was say, 5 brothers in a family in South America the most 'tan' is likely to be referred to as 'negrito'. It's a term of endearment. However, I find it hard to believe that the context in which Suarez used this term was friendly. They were opposing players having a nark. I'm not saying he's racist before anyone starts, I just don't think it's as black and white as some are making out.

Football is full of hypocrisy. Everyone wants to stamp out racism until it's one of their team accused of it.

Tbh, i'm getting a bit fed up of hearing about this selective racism, sad to say i know, to me calling someone a 'french so and so', or say for instance calling someone a 'Jock cunt' is the just the same.

[dom9]

Okay, Terry's on the front page.

I'll get my coat

That made me lol out loud.

[twh]

Keep voting Luis on the sky sports poll

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taken from the official forums come on lads keep voting

Luis down to 40%. (was over 60% last night) Mancs have decided to back Nani as he has has surged up to 24%

http://www.skysports.com/poll/results/0,19911,12782_308666_308666,00.html

Dont let it get away! Closes at midnight tonight I think.