Lucas

[SB]

I know people who say Lucas is a good player, not that popular opinion is any sort of worthwhile judge anyway.

And the bits about only 5 yard passes and nicking some balls are demonstrably false. He is a very good tackler, he rarely gives the ball away and he is a good passer (not in the Alonso sense, but that is a ridiculously unfair comparison).

And to say he is a failed box to box midfielder when he has not been used in that role is a nonsense.

Thanks Matt . Saved me

[JohnDoe]

And to say he is a failed box to box midfielder when he has not been used in that role is a nonsense.

When you're paired with one of the best defensive midfielders out there, I think it's fair to expect a bit more than 0 goals and 2 assists in a Premier League season.

[RedReet]

As regards Lucas, failed box to box midfielder turned Rafa workhorse, that is exactly what happened whatever way you want to look at it. From rafa's our mouth the change in his position was to "minimise mistakes" and maximise his work rate.

He improved last year for sure but in all fairness if he didn't improve on what he was previously then he would have a serious problem. If we want to build a side that is capable of winning the premier league and challenge for CHampions League etc over the coming years IMO you cannot do that with the likes of Lucas playing in your first team.

Its strange how so many people's opinions differ on this lad, i think many LFC fans are willing him to do well because of the stick that he has got and yes there has been a noticeable improvement in his game. Apart from the LFC supporters that come on forums (myself included), i have never heard any other LFC supporter say that Lucas was a good player, thats just me personally but i can tell you thats a lot of LFC fans i have come across in Lucas's time at LFC.

Anyways IMO this guy should be strictly used as a squad player or sold on. He is just not of the standard we need to win titles. 5 yard passes and nicking some balls here and there just doesn't cut it for me. He is no where as good as Masch is at protecting the back four,closing space,hustling and harrying and getting challenges in and he is no where near as good as Alonso was at keeping the ball moving,spotting openings,quick decisive forward passing and switching the play.

Lucas in an average footballer IMO and his potential that people keep saying well...... i personally can't see it, but he does works hard and shows alot of character and heart i'll give him that and i can respect that, unfortunately that only gets you so far. IMHO if he is responsible for protecting our back line this season, we are in trouble.

P.S. Wenger's bid or so called gossip its ridiculous, some journo must have been bored or something.

You could so easily replace Lucas name with Kuyt, and change to date to three years ago. Did Rafa ever call Lucas a ‘box-to-box’ midfielder or was this tag invented by the fans, and constantly used as a stick to beat him (Kuyt was a failed striker etc. Zzzzz)?

Most of your points are opinion, so no real point in arguing them, but I know plenty of people who rate Lucas. I also know plenty of people who don’t and they aren’t hard to spot, especially after 5 minutes conversation.

Oh, and could the mods please ban the phrase ‘work horse’. I ****ing hate it.

[JohnDoe]

You could so easily replace Lucas name with Kuyt, and change to date to three years ago.

Well, Kuyt is a failed striker signing who turned into a midfielder. Is he not, then?

[Mattshark]

When you're paired with one of the best defensive midfielders out there, I think it's fair to expect a bit more than 0 goals and 2 assists in a Premier League season.

Why? That wasn't his role in the team. I think also that the low amount of assists would alter if the team had been actually scoring goals last season, which they weren't.
Alonso only had 5 assists when we were scoring a lot more goals, so would you use that as a criticism of him?

[dww]

Alonso rarely got direct assists either.

[RedReet]

Well, Kuyt is a failed striker signing who turned into a midfielder. Is he not, then?

Well he was voted player of the season in his first year when played as a striker, so if that's deemed a failure, then yes.

He was also phenomenal when first moved out right when we first changed to 4231 towards the end of 07/08 when we went on a long unbeaten run and carried that good form into the new season when we nearly won the league.

[Craig_H]

Why? That wasn't his role in the team.

What IS his role in the team?

[Mattshark]

What IS his role in the team?

Holding midfielder I would assume from his position on the pitch.

[Craig_H]

And what do you expect him to contribute, in accordance with that role?

[Mattshark]

And what do you expect him to contribute, in accordance with that role?

To break up play and it play to our more offensive players.

[Craig_H]

To break up play and it play to our more offensive players.

And of course, you think he does that superbly.

[Mattshark]

And of course, you think he does that superbly.

I think he does it very well.

[Craig_H]

How do you think Mascherano does the same role, in comparison?

[JohnDoe]

Alonso only had 5 assists when we were scoring a lot more goals, so would you use that as a criticism of him?

Alonso rarely got direct assists either.

Alonso could create goals 40 yards from goal just with his incredible vision and passing range. Lucas doesn't have that. If he could drive and get into the box, it might have made up for that, but he doesn't have that either. In other words, he's pointless and redundant. You could make a case for him to be a purely defensive midfielder, but there are other players better and stronger than him in that role.