Lucas

[Mattshark]

Why is it unfair? I don't understand this. Alonso was a class player and is the kind of quality player who should be playing for this club. If you want to make a case for Lucas as a first team player for us, don't start crying when I compare him to previous central midfielders who have played for this club and have done well.

It's as if all the Lucas fans know in their hearts that he's not good enough, but can't seem to admit it. You'll say I'm wrong until you're blue in the face, yet you still admit that Lucas is not, and will not be as good as other players who are good enough.

It's just pointless chin scratching analysis making the issue more complex than he is. Lucas isn't good enough, period. He's not in the quality of Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Hamann, Gary Mac... those players are/were top quality. Lucas isn't close to that tier. He's a Danny Murphy at best, and it might be an insult to Murphy as the guy could actually shoot the ball with power and get some goals.

If we had Carlton Cole as our first choice striker instead of Torres, would people be saying "Yeah, Carlton Cole isn't a top quality striker, but you know, he's a bit good, and well, I like him, and you shouldn't be saying he's ****... because, he wins a lot of headers. His header winning percentage is top 3 in the league etc."



Yet he's got nothing to show for it. No goals, 2 assists all season.



According to Hodgson, Poulsen.

According to me? Cattermole (as a DM), Ireland (as a CM)... ****, I'd take a fit Jimmy Bullard over Lucas any day.

Cattermole and Bullard! FFS

Of course it is a ridiculous comparison, Alonso is one of the best players in the world, it is truly ludicrous to expect a younger player, who while playing in a similar position is a different type of player to do the same thing, that is just stupid.

[banditos]

Lucas is good enough to be our first choice defensive mid IMHO. Quite simply, there aren't that many great ones out there at the moment. For example, is he any worse than Mikel for Chelsea, Song for arsenal or whoever the mancs throw in there?

[JohnDoe]

Because they are different types of player.

Yes, they're different. Mascherano is the good player type while Lucas is not.

[Craig_H]

Because they are different types of player.

They play/played in the same role.

The reason you say they're different types of player, is because Alonso is infinitely better than Lucas at basically everything, and by differentiating them as 'different types of players', that seeks to vindicate Lucas' presence in the side, despite him being so vastly inferior to Alonso.

Mascherano and Alonso were both excellent for us, so given that Lucas is playing that same role, there's nothing unfair in wanting him to reach similar levels, given that he's in the same position as they are/were.

[Mattshark]

Yes, they're different. Mascherano is the good player type while Lucas is not.

Yes but you think Bullard is better than Lucas which is just funny.

[Craig_H]

Yes, they're different. Mascherano is the good player type while Lucas is not.

Lucas isnt as aggressive or energetic as Mascherano, from a defensive point of view - and he isnt as prominent on the ball, intelligent or creative as Alonso, from a more attacking point of view.

He's ok to decent at most things but brilliant at pretty much nothing, as far as i can see.

Squad player, yes. Always in the first team? Shouldnt be.

[Mattshark]

They play/played in the same role.

The reason you say they're different types of player, is because Alonso is infinitely better than Lucas at basically everything, and by differentiating them as 'different types of players', that seeks to vindicate Lucas' presence in the side, despite him being so vastly inferior to Alonso.

Mascherano and Alonso were both excellent for us, so given that Lucas is playing that same role, there's nothing unfair in wanting him to reach similar levels, given that he's in the same position as they are/were.

He is a different type of player. Lucas does his job in the team well. Yes I would rather have Alonso, but we don't and we need to get over it.

You can want him to reach the same levels, but simply expecting him to instantly is idiotic.

[RedReet]

I have to disagree mate Lucas is more of a DM thats nicks the balls of people more so than a tackler like Masch.

It wasn't a direct comparion of them as such mate, but at the end of the day Lucas is replacing them so "he will" be compared to them and rightly so, Lucas is no where near as good as Masch or Alonso who are completely contrasting holding midfielders, Lucas is the category in between.

And "he is" is failed box to box midfielder, as he wasn't good enough in that position, he was making lots of mistakes so Rafa changed his role, now that mate is a fact, it happened and rafa commented on this himself.

You are obviously a fan of Lucas and thats fair enough, we are all interesting in what is good for LFC, if you think that Lucas in our starting 11 is good for LFC, well i think that is shocking and IMO Lucas in the starting line up is detrimental to our club.

When exactly was this by the way? When were we playing a formation that incorporated a 'box to box' midfielder, or did we change our whole formation to suit this young Brazilian kid?

[Craig_H]

He is a different type of player. Lucas does his job in the team well. Yes I would rather have Alonso, but we don't and we need to get over it.

You can want him to reach the same levels, but simply expecting him to instantly is idiotic.

So we're settling for someone inferior then.

To my mind, Alonso and Mascherano have set the standard for that position and we should be looking to maintain that standard, not accept inferiority. Lucas is quite obviously a step backwards.

[JohnDoe]

Cattermole and Bullard! FFS

Of course it is a ridiculous comparison, Alonso is one of the best players in the world, it is truly ludicrous to expect a younger player, who while playing in a similar position is a different type of player to do the same thing, that is just stupid.

Yes, Lee Cattermole is a better player than Lucas. Switch their clubs and Sunderland are worse off and we'll be better off. If anyone honestly disagrees with this, tell me why. Put Lucas in the Sunderland team, **** it, put him in any Premier League team and he won't stand out. Why? But he's a scared little girl who doesn't have the mentality to be an influential player.

Bullard is a far more productive player than Lucas, and if he's fit (which he isn't), he's more creative, a better passer and isn't scared of his own shadow. He's a a joke example, yet it's still true.

[RedReet]

I have my doubts about Lucas. But I'd like to see how he does under Hodgeson's guidance. He's shown a lot of improvement in the past 12 months, if he can continue to improve there's no reason why he can't become an important part of the first team. Big, big season for Lucas.

That’s what I don’t understand about some people. Everyone has admitted that Lucas improved drastically last year (although some just can say it without adding he couldn’t have got any worse), and was a much better player than they previously though. Why then can’t they accept that in his second full season, he’ll continue to improve like most footballers naturally do?

I just don’t get it.

[JohnDoe]

The reason you say they're different types of player, is because Alonso is infinitely better than Lucas at basically everything, and by differentiating them as 'different types of players', that seeks to vindicate Lucas' presence in the side, despite him being so vastly inferior to Alonso.

Amen. Abso****inglutely. Couldn't have said it better.

[RedReet]

Yes, Lee Cattermole is a better player than Lucas. Switch their clubs and Sunderland are worse off and we'll be better off. If anyone honestly disagrees with this, tell me why. Put Lucas in the Sunderland team, **** it, put him in any Premier League team and he won't stand out. Why? [B]But he's a scared little girl who doesn't have the mentality to be an influential player.

That must be why Roy sees him as captain material, eh?

[danperkins]

But he is factually one of the most prolific tacklers in the league

Oh yeah good old opta stats, by them so is Diame from Wigan? Think we had this conversation already? If your relying on stats to make assumptions about footballers then you got a problem mate.

And that doesn't make the comparison or expectation and more worthwhile.
Tell me, which holding midfielder that we can afford do you think is better than Lucas?

Off top of my head Flamini,Parker, even Cattermole and don't mind the expectation, judge the performance, as Lucas will be judged on his performance and he most certainly will be judged against players he has replaced, like most other players playing for any other club would be.

That isn't a fact, that is your opinion on what Rafa has said

Well the fact that he failed in the box to box position for Liverpool FC and was put in the DM role and since has become a better player (from your mouth aswell) shows that it is a fact really isn't it?

Why? He doesn't lose the ball, he is a good tackler, he is a good passer and unlike our only other DM, he doesn't want to leave.
How is me thinking Lucas is good enough to player for us detrimental to LFC, what an utter ridiculous thing to say

Em he does lose the ball, 4 separate occassions in our last game against the mighty Robnikiiikikifii
kkki he lost the ball in silly positions, he gives away silly free kicks in dangerous positions, this this several times just outside the box last season, not dirty just clumsy and cumbersome.

Its very rare you will see Lucas sliding or making the type of challenge Masch does, like i said Lucas is more of the type of player that nicks the ball of people, that was the comparison between styles and not saying that tacklin gon the ground or nicking the ball of doesn't have the same end product.

And i'm saying that having Lucas in our first team and being the one who is solely responsible for protecting our backline, is and will be detrimental to Liverpool FC IMO.

[Mattshark]

Yes, Lee Cattermole is a better player than Lucas. Switch their clubs and Sunderland are worse off and we'll be better off. If anyone honestly disagrees with this, tell me why. Put Lucas in the Sunderland team, **** it, put him in any Premier League team and he won't stand out. Why? But he's a scared little girl who doesn't have the mentality to be an influential player.

Bullard is a far more productive player than Lucas, and if he's fit (which he isn't), he's more creative, a better passer and isn't scared of his own shadow. He's a a joke example, yet it's still true.