Brendan Rodgers

[Vermilion]

Any suggestion we sack Rodger's is ****ing absurd, and puts the person on a par with Abramovich when it comes to football. AKA ****ing retarded.

You mean they know how to win trophies ?

[Shaggy]

Lol, good spot. Does an alarm go off somewhere when anyone is a touch loose with a stat about Rafa?

But yeah, its true we did challenge for top 4 that season, though at no point were we actually good value for 4th spot and we did ultimately finish 7 points off in 7th. It just felt worse, having almost won the title the previous year. Still, my point was that an obvious deterioration had already started then - mostly thanks to H&G obviously but I think most people would admit the players we had underperformed that year. Hell we finished behind Villa

Rafa was struggling to get what he wanted out of that core player group in his last season imo, and every, very possibly lesser manager since has struggled even more, aided by further squad attrition, crap buys etc. This to me indicates that at least partly we should be admitting that our players just aren't as good as some fans seem to think they are.

I'm just au fait with all the facts

That's all it was - it felt worse because we'd been spoiled. We fell away in the last two games but were in the hunt throughout and our impressive goal difference suggests we were more than decent value from August to April. Our home record after 36 games (as I posted) was P18 W13 D3 L2. Pretty good.

Re overrating players. From that side - and the title challenging side the season before - only really Reina, Lucas, Skrtel, Agger and Gerrard have survived. Johnson was added to the title-challenging side but he missed a fair number of league games (about 15) in 2009-2010, while Agger was not a regular (Skrtel paired with Carragher mostly).

With the exception of Johnson who wasn't here, they all proved, however, that they can contribute to a title challenging side in 2008-2009.

Fast forward to 2012 and Gerrard is clearly not the same player and never will be, while Reina has declined and we don't know if he'll ever get back to what he was. Lucas has suffered a serious injury and we're waiting to see if he can get back to the high level he was at before. So that leaves Skrtel and Agger who remain from the halcyon Benitez era and are still at their peak. The squad now is vastly different. And vastly inferior.

[fred_plasticine]

I'm just au fait with all the facts

That's all it was - it felt worse because we'd been spoiled. We fell away in the last two games but were in the hunt throughout and our impressive goal difference suggests we were more than decent value from August to April. Our home record after 36 games (as I posted) was P18 W13 D3 L2. Pretty good.

Re overrating players. From that side - and the title challenging side the season before - only really Reina, Lucas, Skrtel, Agger and Gerrard have survived. Johnson was added to the title-challenging side but he missed a fair number of league games (about 15) in 2009-2010, while Agger was not a regular (Skrtel paired with Carragher mostly).

With the exception of Johnson who wasn't here, they all proved, however, that they can contribute to a title challenging side in 2008-2009.

Fast forward to 2012 and Gerrard is clearly not the same player and never will be, while Reina has declined and we don't know if he'll ever get back to what he was. Lucas has suffered a serious injury and we're waiting to see if he can get back to the high level he was at before. So that leaves Skrtel and Agger who remain from the halcyon Benitez era and are still at their peak. The squad now is vastly different. And vastly inferior.

great teams always have players who contribute and look so much better in that title winning (or nearly title winning in our case) team.
but put them into a weaker team and sooner or later you'll see their real value.
the only indisputable fact about rafa's reign imho is this: you give a manager time and money and you'll see his vision unfold. if he's got a vision and the talent, that is. which rodgers does, again imo.

[DannyMan2006]

We had a brilliant side. Instead if building on it, we've made it worse every year since. Sometimes the fault of the manager, Benitez/Alonso, sometimes not, Hodgson/Mascherano.

But the fact of the matter stands, every year our squad has got worse. And whilst a lot was the fault of the old regime, having to do surgery on the wage bill this summer hardly helped.

But when you're not in the CL, you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

[DannyMan2006]

great teams always have players who contribute and look so much better in that title winning (or nearly title winning in our case) team.
but put them into a weaker team and sooner or later you'll see their real value.
the only indisputable fact about rafa's reign imho is this: you give a manager time and money and you'll see his vision unfold. if he's got a vision and the talent, that is. which rodgers does, again imo.

Case in point are the likes of Johnny Evans at United this season. Not bad players, but hardly ones that would help carry an average side.

[Captain Stu]

Case in point are the likes of Johnny Evans at United this season. Not bad players, but hardly ones that would help carry an average side.

Without Jonny Evans' goals this season, United would actually be one point better off.

[BootRoom]

We're now struggling with the likes of West Ham, Swansea and Norwich - teams that have recently been in the Championship! And we're looking up at the likes of West Brom and Everton. All this "poor Brendan, he inherited a ****e squad" bollocks is ****ing ridiculous when we are being matched by clubs that have VERY RECENTLY been in FAR WORSE positions WITHOUT a team of packed with club and international experience.

[BootRoom]

Remember him saying that some of the players didn't even understand his drills. Now how do we know this isn't happening with Rodgers right now?

What Rodgers has said regarding the summer seems to me that he's going to overhaul the team, but he's going to try and do it without risking alienating the major players at the club (Gerrard, Carragher, Reina). With that in mind, he'll bring in players who can absorb his ideas best, and have shown they can do it at previous clubs (i.e. Sturridge, who was excellent under Villas Boas on the right hand side).

For me, we've also got three potential new signings: Borini and Lucas (due back and recovering from injury) and Allen (not played in his best position for a while and became exhausted).

When you look at it on paper, our squad is poor bar our defence. We're counting on developing youth to supplement an underachieving, demotivated (Premier League challengers to the brink of administration and struggling to finish in the top 8) side. The attitude of the players is poor too. There is so much work to be done, and Rodgers in his interviews has shown that he knows what they are, and is clearly relying on January and the summer to get his plans in his place.

If true then it demonstrates why Rodger's isn't the man for the job; he shouldn't be worried about alienating the likes of Reina, Carragher or Gerrard. It's Liverpool FC not Gerrard FC. What benefit have we got out of keeping them happy so far? How much worse off would we be if they started throwing their toys out of the pram?

[Shaggy]

great teams always have players who contribute and look so much better in that title winning (or nearly title winning in our case) team.

That's obvious - it goes without saying that successful sides are not packed 1-11 with world class players.

But it's not fair to say you see a player's "real value" when you stick them in a **** team. Send Messi to Dagenham & Redbridge and you would not see his real value. Likewise with a team's 'Steady Eddie'.

My point is that Skrtel, Agger, Reina, Lucas & Gerrard are certainly good enough to play for and contribute to a successful side - they have demonstrated as much.

In mitigation, only Skrtel & Agger are currently at their peak (Lucas & Reina could easily return to their peaks).

Aside from the deluded, no-one expected us to finish in the top 4 this season. However most of us expected some sort of challenge, and a finish of around 6th place, maybe 7th. That was not an unrealistic expectation and nor does it overrate our players. Without a vast improvement, a top 7 finish looks unlikely. We have been unable to beat a single team in the top half. However you dress it up it isn't good enough, and it is not unrealistic to expect better.

[Norbs]

Remember when we signed Stan Collymore? He wasn't Premiership proven but he was a ****ing brilliant signing.

He was £8.5m and had been a revelation at Forest. He was hardly a bargain or an amazing diacoveey

[Captain Stu]

He was £8.5m and had been a revelation at Forest. He was hardly a bargain or an amazing diacoveey

Exactly.

At the time, us signing him was like United signing Persie.

[Vermilion]

We had a brilliant side. Instead if building on it, we've made it worse every year since. Sometimes the fault of the manager, Benitez/Alonso, sometimes not, Hodgson/Mascherano.

But the fact of the matter stands, every year our squad has got worse. And whilst a lot was the fault of the old regime, having to do surgery on the wage bill this summer hardly helped.

But when you're not in the CL, you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

We, We; have to cut our cloth accordingly, because we're preparing for ffp, others just spend like drunken you know whats to get there.

But it looks like they'll all still balance their books and avoid any punishment of real consequence, they'll probably fine them. .

[BootRoom]

Simple answer - they aren't. They're decent, but bollocks are they (or their partnership) world class.


<Cut>

Hodgson got sacked for being the very antethesis of a Liverpool manager. A guy who disrespected the fans and the club every time he opened his mouth, and who fell over himself to suck up to Mr Ferguson. A guy who tried to bomb Agger out of the club and thought Poulson and Konchesky were appropriate purchases. A guy who had no plan and under whom the club had no future. Results under Rodgers may not be all that different, but everything else is.

<Cut>

Why get het up about Bodge trying to get shut of Agger? He (Agger) is 'only decen't', right? Surely it would have been no hardship to get another 'decent' defender in, and you never know, we could easily got a somebody better than 'decent' that would be more help to us now.

[Captain Stu]

We, We; have to cut our cloth accordingly, because we're preparing for ffp, others just spend like drunken you know whats to get there.

Problem is that while we're being the good little nerds and everyone else is spending big - their squads are getting even better than ours so when the FFP dust settles, they'll pay a fine or get a new sponsorship deal and we'll be out the top four for good.

[G]

Any suggestion we sack Rodger's is ****ing absurd, and puts the person on a par with Abramovich when it comes to football. AKA ****ing retarded.

Before I make this point let me add the disclaimer :-I don't think we should do what Chelsea do however

Starting with Jose which was Roman's first full season,Chelsea have had 7 managers under Abramovich and have won 9 trophies in that time

Arsenal have had the same manager all that time and won the FA cup once.

The bags of cash clearly make a difference but maybe old Roman is not as bonkers as many make out.

If its not working he makes a change and backs the new man.

We made a change cos it wasn't working and haven't backed the new man.

He said himself decisions are out of his hands on transfers.